Jonathan: Hey, everyone! Jonathan Bailor here. Very, very excited about today’s show because a little bit of reminiscing and insert a little virtual hug here to my guest because we got my brother, Sean Croxton on the show, and Sean showed love to me very, very early on in my entrance into the internet nutrition world and brought me on his wonderful and just profoundly popular podcast Underground Wellness Radio.
Sean, it just such a pleasure to have you on my show now. Folks, if you’re not familiar with Sean’s work, please check him out at UndergroundWellness.com. Literally, anyone who’s anyone has been on his show, and truly Sean, you’re a pioneer on the field so thank you for joining us.
Sean: Thank you very much, Jonathan. I appreciate it.
Jonathan: Sean, well, it’s absolutely my pleasure, and what I was so excited about with today’s show is on your show obviously, you give people a wonderful platform on which to share their story; but I want to hear more about your story. You’re doing all kinds of stuff out there for nutrition and wellness, and I want to know about little Sean Croxton and how he became the maven connector that he is today.
Sean: Oh, man. It’s a long story, but I’ll keep it short or least I try to. My story is one of failure. Really. We learn from our failures, so they say, and that’s as much you would need actually. I went to California State University and I studied kinesiology, and that’s basically for those who don’t know, fitness, nutrition and health. I wanted to become the world’s greatest personal trainer. I wanted to rid the world of obesity, on and on and on. I did really well on my classes, and I graduated and had this degree Bachelor of Sciences, Kinesiology grad, and soon found out that what I learned in school was completely wrong.
I was doing things like having my clients do tons and tons of cardio, having them consume low calorie diets that were pretty much free of fats so I was having them drink low fat milk or even replace their dairy products with soy products which is definitely not a good idea. Had them take the skin off their chicken. Just doing all these things that didn’t really work. At first, I thought that it wasn’t me and my program. I thought it was them. I thought they were cheating on their diets. They would come in for their weigh ins, and their weight would go up or wouldn’t change after they put in all of this work. I was stuck in that box of calories in and calories out.
A couple of years in, because it took me a little while to catch on to this, I said “Hey, maybe it’s not my clients. Maybe it’s me and what I’m asking these clients to do.” At the same time, I was having my own issues. I was having digestive problems. I was having issues with my mood. I was very depressed and also had a lot of social anxiety. I wouldn’t go anywhere. I was pretty much at home all the time, but while I was at home, I was reading books. I started reading books that were written by people who were getting real results with real people instead of a textbook that was written by some guy who had never worked with anybody.
I stumbled upon Paul Czech and David Getoff and Theo Walcott and Loren Cordain, on and on and on, Anthony Price as well, and found out that “Yo, I really wasn’t a college graduate on that day when I walked across the stage. I was more of a representative for the food industry.” It just really clicked. I said “What I am preaching to my clients is not real. It’s all just to make more money for these companies.” And so I flipped everything, went more… I don’t like to use the word ‘natural’ but I went more with real foods, because I don’t think God is stupid. I’ve done a video about this. Did God really put the fat and milk to kill us? Did God really put the yolk in the egg to kill us? Did He put skin on the chicken to kill us? Probably not.
I want to get back to the old school and the way that our ancestors ate and this program as well as cutting back on the cardio and doing some other things works, and that’s what I’m about. I’m about what works, and so that’s my story. And there, I decided to share this information on YouTube. My roommate for some reason got me a webcam for Christmas, and I just started making YouTube videos way back on 2006, 2007. Eventually, started up the Underground Wellness Podcast and started blogging then wrote the Dark Side of Fat Loss and now we’re doing summits, and now we’re here.
Jonathan: Sean, the thing that I think is just awesome about your story is, I’m a fan of Macklemore and Ryan Lewis because they’re from my hometown of Seattle. They hit home, and they have a song in their new album called Ten Thousand Hours, which talks about the premise that I believe Malcolm Gladwell talks about in his book Outliers, which is that it takes ten thousand hours of conscious, deliberate effort to become world class at something. Brother, you’ve been at this for nearly a decade. I can only imagine you far exceeded ten thousand hours. How do you stay focused, and how do you stay driven? How can other people… you essentially made a pretty cool life for yourself from a pretty dark place. How can other people do that?
Sean: Oh, gosh. Am I at ten thousand hours? That’s crazy. It’s been a decade. That’s wild when you said… that you said it’s a decade, and I’m “Well, that’s crazy!” Time flies. It’s really a matter of just passion and love for what I do. I’ve always been a guy who’s looking to help and serve others. In eighth grade, I won the service award at graduation, because that’s just what I do. If you’re putting away chairs after an event, I was guy that would be “Can I help?” I’m just that type of guy, and not only did my clients need help but also I needed help at the same time for some of the stuff I had going on so I was very, very motivated. I just find the human body and the human experience in general to be extremely fascinating, and I love to share.
I think that the best experts out there are those who can learn really complicated stuff and break it down in a way that people can understand so they can use it and pass it on to others, and we can really change the world. You got to think “I’m only one person, and you’re only one person; but, gosh, how many people out there can we affect and can we impact?” That’s what drives me. It’s not a selfish drive at all. It’s, “How can I help others?” I think if people want to become motivated and put in their ten thousand hours in order to become experts then that’s what you have to do is kind of look outside of yourself and see how you can be an impact to the lives of others.
Jonathan: I love that, Sean. I think there’s so much profound wisdom in that, and the other thing that I think is interesting and what’s you’re take on is while certainly you’re out there. You’re connecting with a lot of people. You have these summits. I can imagine as someone who does a similar, a little bit of an internet role – certainly, not to the scale that you do – but at times, when you’re going, for lack of better terms, up against a multi-trillion dollar industry and you’re sitting in your office with your webcam on your computer, how do you avoid feeling a bit like you’re trying to find a needle in a haystack or you’re trying to scoop out cups of water out of the ocean? How do you stay so positive?
Sean: I stay positive through the positive feedback that I get, the emails that I get, the comments that are made on Facebook and on YouTube and on Twitter. That’s one of the things that keeps me going, and you’re right. It is an incredibly huge machine. However, I also keep in mind — I tell people this all the time — we live in this really cool age or this really cool time where we can use social media and we can… let’s just check this out, man. You can turn on your webcam, and you can shoot a video and you can upload it to YouTube for the entire world to see, and it’s free. It’s free. We have Twitter. It’s free. We have FaceBook. It’s free. We have BlogTalkRadio. You can get a half hour show for free.
We have all of these great tools these days for getting our message out without having to pay anything, and so it does take time, though. I didn’t just rush out of the gate and get 20,000 subscribers on YouTube. It takes time, but that’s just a reflection. That patience that you have to have is just the reflection of the passion that you have on what you do. I shouldn’t be about, “How many subscribers can I get?” It’s like, “Yo. I just want to help people and serve them and add value to their lives. They will come because I have a highly impactful message for them.” If that makes sense.
Jonathan: Sean, it makes a lot of sense. Actually, I want to drill into that because I think so often there is, not only for fat loss especially, but in life in general, and even in professional pursuits, there’s this desire for the quick fix; and what you just mentioned is, in some ways, it flips it on it’s head, it’s, “Do great work, and the intention will come.” We talked about hacking biology and biology hacks, and to be clear that’s fun; and we all like that, but at the end of the day, isn’t it really just about putting in a lot of good work and letting the system work itself out?
Sean: Yeah, yeah. Put out good work, and people will find you. You will get the results that you’re looking for if you just do good stuff. I can’t say enough. People ask me, “Do you do search engine optimization? Do you buy ad space and subscribe people to your website?” “No. I just put out good stuff.” Before I upload a video, before I post a blog post, before I do anything, I always ask myself, “Is this awesome?” If it’s ‘yes’, I’m going to put it up. I also ask myself, “Would my mom understand this?” because my mom isn’t in in this industry. She doesn’t sit around and read books the way that we do and do all this research.
I want to make sure that this information is getting down to the average person who really doesn’t have the passion for this the way that we do. That way my mom can read it and be like, “Oh!” And she can improve her fitness or improve her diet or whatever she needs to do. She can get that little nugget of information today and then come back and maybe get another nugget, and over time, these nuggets start to build up to really big nuggets. You know what I’m saying? That’s kind of just the same premise that ten thousands hours is based upon. You’ve always have to think about this with ten thousand hours. It always starts with hour number one.
If you don’t start with hour number one, if you don’t take that first step, you’re never going to get that ten thousand hours. This is not saying that you’re not going to be an expert until you get that ten thousand hours, because I’m not even sure if I gotten the ten thousand hours with myself. It’s just really about building up your knowledge over time and sharing what you’ve learned through these really awesome, free platforms that we have these days.
Jonathan: Sean, I think that is a macro lesson for life, because obviously you got your book The Dark Side of Fat Loss. We both talk a lot about health and fat loss specifically, and while it won’t take ten thousand hours, when we talk about professional pursuits, I often find it encouraging. If I focus on every single day like, “Where am I at today? Where am I going to be at tomorrow? Where am I going to be at the next day?” You can become neurotic, and you can become like, “Oh, I just saw XYZ person on this television show. Why am I not on that television show tomorrow?” If you’re like, “Look at what I’m doing. Look at where I was a year ago. Look at where I was two years ago, and look at where I’m at today.” That can be much more empowering.
Then, if we port that over to fat loss, I think, personally, one of the reasons we struggle so much with health and fat loss is we have a similar short-term mindset: “Where am I at tomorrow? Where am I at the next day? Where am I at the next day?” rather than, literally, if your goal is to be healthier a year from now, you will take a different approach and I’ll guarantee you that approach will actually enable you to be healthier 15 years from now rather than to be just heavier 15 days from now. What do you think?
Sean: Yes, I completely agree with that. If you say to somebody “Hey, I can help you lose one pound per week.” They’ll look at you like, “What are you talking about one pound per week? I was watching the biggest loser last week, and somebody lost 25 pounds in a week. They are going to be like, “What?” We have to consider that compound effect. One pound this week is four pounds for the month, which is 52 pounds for the year. That’s huge. Just think of where you’re going to be next year at this time 52 pounds lighter if you keep that pace, one pound a week. It could be more, it could be a little bit less, but you will be in a much better situation. That’s one of the things that drives me, because our passion for this… no one else, I speak for myself.
I go through my times when my passion for this go through a little bit of a lull, a little bit tired of it, but then it will come back and I’ll be, “Let’s go at it.” Maybe, I just need a little break, but I think to myself a year from now, two years from now doing this work and continue to build upon it, “Where am I going to be?” If I were to stop today a year from now, how am I going to feel about myself? That’s the very thing that got me to actually write The Dark Side of Fat Loss, because I would set a goal every year to write a book; and I remember New Year’s Day or New Year’s Eve, I would always look back on the year and say, “I did not write that book.” The next year I would do the same thing.
I finally got to the point where I was like, “Yo! This time next year, next New Year’s Eve, I’m going to celebrate the fact that I wrote this book.” because I’m tired of feeling this way, and I got it done. For the audience out there, just think about how you’re going to feel on this day next year if you do it or if you don’t do it; because it can be easy to do one pound a week but it can also be easy to not do, so which one are you going to choose?
Jonathan: Sean, it’s such a foundational paradigm shift because once we take that longer term sustainable mindset, it unlocks so many doors because we stop looking for the quick fix. Sean, I got to tell you, literally, that is, to me, the foundation of all of this complexity, because if the goal is truly to be, “Let me just make continual gradual progress and build on that foundation forever” you can do that very simply and very naturally. When we start to put these unnatural short term expectations on ourselves, we do things which are counterproductive and start us on this self-defeating loop where we get frustrated because really happiness is a function of expectations against reality. If our expectations aren’t in line with reality, we’re always going to be disappointed.
Sean: Absolutely. I fully agree with that. We also have to think that what you value has to be in line with your goals as well. Sometimes, people don’t really value health enough to achieve that goal, so that should also be considered.
Jonathan: Absolutely. The effort we’re willing to put in as well, I think sometimes — we talked about this in a recent podcast, this concept of, I think there’s being healthy and then there’s being ripped; and those are not at all the same things, right?
Sean: Definitely not. I know a lot of ripped people, and I’ve worked with a lot of ripped people. I used to do what is called “functional diagnostic nutrition.” I worked one-on-one with my clients, and my ripped “ripped figure competitors, body builder competitors,” they were typically the least healthy people that I worked with. Their hormones were way out of whack adrenals were tapped out, bodies just incredibly toxic, digestive problems were… most of them had serious digestive problems going on. Those are the models though that most people look at. That’s who people want to be like. We have to understand that those people are not healthy. We want to make sure you’re healthy enough. I always say I can sit down with a client, and I always call her Mrs. Nelson for some reason.
Mrs. Nelson says “Hey! I want to lose 30 pounds.” I say “I can help you lose 30 pounds, but tell me how is your sleep?” She says “Oh, I wake up three or four times a night.” “How’s your libido? Your sex drive?” “Oh, it’s just gone. It has not existed and hasn’t been there for ten years. My husband is really mad at me.” “How is your brain?” “I have to write things down. I just feel I’m in a fog all the time.” “How’s your mood?” “Oh, I’m depressed. I got anxiety.” “How is your digestion?” “I’m totally constipated.” I go twice a week.” I go, “Mrs. Nelson, I can help you to lose 30 pounds over time, but are you going to be satisfied if you still have insomnia, if you’re still waking up, if you still have no sex drive, if you still go to the bathroom every few days?”
We have to realize that if we don’t lose fat to get healthy that we have to get healthy to lose fat, and a lot of people, what they are doing is they’re forcing fat as well as lean tissue off their body and they’re actually becoming more unhealthy; and that’s not something you’re going to be able to maintain over time. That’s also just going to just really tear away at your health, and you’re going to live a less productive and fulfilling life. It’s not cool.
Jonathan: Sean, that maintain over time again, is just such a foundational paradigm shift, because even these people who their professional job is to be that four percent body fat, eight percent, twelve percent body fat, when you see these people they prepped for that photo shoot or they prepped for that competition. They are not constantly in that state, and beyond that, let’s remember that just like none of us get down on our ourselves, because we can’t play basketball like Michael Jordan, these people, this is their job and they have the genes to do it. We’re not sitting here, “Man, I can’t play basketball like Michael Jordan, so I’m not just going to try to do anything athletic.” Please don’t do that to yourself.
Sean: Yeah, you’re not six foot six and genetically gifted. That’s such an unrealistic expectation for a lot of people. There is only one Michael Jordan, and like you said figure competitors and these ripped individuals don’t walk around looking like that all the time. I’ve known people to get ripped and really lean for contest, and they’ll gain 20 pounds over the weekend. They’re drinking the water. They’re rehydrating. They’re starting to eat carbohydrates again. They literally just blow up, and so you have to consider that just to stay there, again, you’re not going to be able to maintain it.
We really want to focus on being healthy and slowly chopping away at your body fat. If you’re 25 percent body fat today, let’s set a goal to get you down 24. When we get 24, let’s set a goal to get you down 23 and this is going to keep moving in the right direction and just see what works right for you. But getting down and setting a goal of four percent body fat, it probably isn’t going to happen. I’m fairly lean, and I’m nowhere near four percent body fat.
Jonathan: We got to keep in mind that the concept of diminishing marginal returns where the effort you’re going to need to put in to go from 25 to 24 is less than the effort you will need to put in to go from 24 to 23. If you want to start talking about going from 15 percent body fat to 14 and then from 10 to 9, the closer you get to zero, because at zero you die, I think… I’m not sure. Your body is going to continuously push harder and harder against you the lower and lower that gets, so keep in mind too that there might come a point where you’re experiencing diminishing marginal returns where if you mortgage your entire life, you can get leaner, but then why? Why?
Sean: Yes, yes. I love the fact that you said that “Mortgaging your entire life.” It cannot be fun to get that shredded. Your life cannot be that awesome. You’re not going out with friends when you’re getting that shredded, because they might go to some restaurant, and you can’t eat food. You’re just lifting, eating freaking chicken breast and salad all day and then you’re going to bed. You’re just constantly just living this life focused on yourself and your body and trying to get to this shredded physique, and you’re probably not going to be not that much fun to be around. You’re going to feel incredibly isolated. To be honest, in the end it’s definitely not worth it. Just be healthy.
Jonathan: Absolutely. It’s the distinction and what really drives me in this field is the distinction between being alive to pursue health and fitness or pursuing health and fitness so you can enjoy your life. There’s a difference there between the focus, right?
Sean: Yes. I enjoy my life, and I recommend that people enjoy their life as well. The enjoyment of my life is not dependent upon having six pack abs. It’s not. It’s the relationships that I have. It’s the passion for the work that I do. It’s my family. Just the ability to feel fulfilled, and again, one thing that’s not going to make me feel incredibly fulfilled is having eight pack abs or something like that. That’s just a little bit too much. That’s almost obsessiveness, in my opinion. Eat real food. Enjoy your life. Have some fun. Spend some time with friends. I tell you this just real quick.
Working with clients, there’s a questionnaire that I give my clients, and there’s a box on there that says, “Do you feel lonely and isolated?” and ninety percent of the time, the client will check ‘yes’. I’ll ask “When was the last time you hung out with some friends?” They’ll be like, “Oh, last Christmas.” I’ll be “It’s June.” Get out. Have some fun. Enjoy your life. Cheat on your diet a little bit every now and then. Just live instead of just being fully body fat-focused, because it will certainly drive you crazy over time and it will also stress you out.
Jonathan: Yeah, you will restart place where your pursuit of health becomes incredibly unhealthy, and certainly, that is not a happy place to be.
Sean: It’s not.
Jonathan: I love that, Sean. I love taking on that mindset of empowerment. Also, I think it’s a great reality check for people, too, because if you just eat real food and you achieve this place of nutritional serenity, in some ways fitness and nutrition becomes a bit more of a… it’s just in the back of your mind. You got it. You got it. If you’re established in your job, you can go into work. It’s cool, but it’s not preoccupying you. It’s not really the forefront of your conscious mind. That’s a great place to be. Also, understand that people who have these 12-pack abs aren’t in that place so again, I just think sometimes people are “I want to…” We give a message, you do the same thing about this. This can be very, very, very simple.
When we say that, we’re saying that in terms of, if you’re goal is to have this more of a simple lifestyle where you don’t have to be nitty-gritty and you don’t have to be focused on this all the time. But, again, if you want to be world-class which having eight packs abs is being world-class, start to think more about those Olympic gymnasts. Start to think about those people who play the piano for ten hours a day, seven days a week. Again, if you want world-class results, you’re going to have to put on world-class effort, but both Sean and I, I think, are telling you is that that might not be the right trade off unless you’re getting paid a lot of money for it.
Sean: Exactly. I’m talking to the average person out there. I’m not talking to the gymnast. I’m not talking to the pianist. I’m just talking to my mom. That’s all I’m interested in talking to. Just helping people to realize that your diet and your fitness are just two pieces of the very big puzzle that you are, and over-focusing on them can really take a lot away from your life in general, so just chill out. As much as I know about all of this health stuff, I’m just your average guy.
I’m just a regular dude who just wants to eat real food and just to stay fit. When I get in the shower in the morning, it would be “I’m good.” When I look in the mirror “I’m good. I feel good. I got energy.” I think I’m aging very fairly well and that’s all I want now. I just want to go and play basketball every morning like I typically do and not have my body hurt. Just enjoying my life. Just be who I am.
Jonathan: Sean, that’s such a great message, because again, I think a lot of people are pursuing these more as aesthetic goals rather than as health goals, because they think it will bring them a state of mind. They think it will bring them an emotional state of happiness, but I think we’re here to tell you that you can achieve that emotional state of mind without having four percent body fat; and actually if you want a quick approach to not have that state of mind, it’s being so pre-occupied with having four percent body fat.
Sean: Exactly. You want to have balance in your life. There’s so many different aspects of your life that together will lead to happiness, and like I said earlier, the diet and exercise piece the aesthetic stuff, is just one piece, one or two pieces in there. You have to complete the wheel. Balance out your life and just live fully. Live full out.
Jonathan: I love it. I love it, Sean. Well, you’ve got some awesome upcoming work which I think, as another piece of this puzzle, you’ve got your upcoming Sexy Back Summit. Can you tell us about that?
Sean: Sex, everybody loves sex. I don’t know anybody who doesn’t like sex. I realized this a few months ago. I interviewed Dr. Sara Gottfried who’s the author of The Hormone Cure. She’s so incredible, by the way, and it was such a popular show. I just happened to be at a mastermind, J.J.’s mastermind couple of days later and there’s all these OB-GYNs sitting at a table, including Dr. Sara Gottfried, and I was like, “I need to do a summit on sex.” We’ve done a Paleo Summit. We did Real Foods Summit last year. I need to do a summit on sex.
I started putting it up together, and it’s incredible. Let me actually pull this up. It’s an online event. It’s totally free. We’ve got presentations on Dr. Gottfried’s Fifty Shades of Better Sex. Secrets of a Harvard Psychologist. We have at least a VD, Cross Train Your Menstrual Cycle for a Better Sex Life. We’ve got a presentations on Exercise and Sex by Brett Klika. We’ve got Paul Czech. We’ve got Yuri Elkaim talking about Super Foods for Super Sex. We’ve got Jane Bennett talking about Natural Birth Control Alternatives. We have presentations on the inability to orgasm for women. We have another one on how to get rid of UTI’s and yeast infections and candida.
It literally goes on and on. How to increase your testosterone if you’re a man. We’ve got 24 presentations. Again, they’re all free. It’s going to be starting on May 19th, so just a few weeks away. It’s going to be the most awesome summit that we’ll probably ever had. I can’t think of anything better than this very topics. I think it’s interesting to everybody, and in a nutshell, it’s just natural solutions for sex-related health challenges, the presentations by some of the best sexperts in the world.
Jonathan: Sean, just in case folks are listening to this podcast post May 19th, I’m assuming after the fact, folks can still enjoy this concept. Where can they go to learn more? Where can they go to learn more after the fact? All that kind of fun stuff.
Sean: They will be able to go to the link that’s in your show notes, so just send them over there and then we’ll give you a link to put in there for that.
Jonathan: Beautiful. Beautiful, and of course, check out UndergroundWellness.com, folks, if you haven’t already. Sean’s got an amazing amount of free information, awesome video resources, and of course, a wonderful podcast which if you scroll back about a year, you’ll find my show with Sean. This is little baby Jonathan. I think Sean was the third show I had ever been on, and I look forward to joining you again on your show, a day on your show, Sean. Certainly, check out his book The Dark Side of Fat Loss and Sean, just real quick, can you give us a quick overview of The Dark Side of Fat Loss. I’ve heard a lot of really good things about it, and I know it’s an eBook, right? Well, what’s it all about?
Sean: The Dark Side of Fat Loss is just pretty much what I’ve learned from all the experts that I’ve interviewed over the years and the books that I’ve read about the truth about fat loss and getting out of that box of calories in and calories out and starting to look out at some of the hidden things that can be going on. So, it includes diet and exercise, but also talking about hormones and how those influence fat loss and then weight gain as well. Looking at sweet which is incredibly important for fat loss. Looking at your digestion.
You can be on the greatest diet in history in the world but if you’re not digesting your food really well then there may be some problems. We talked about reducing your toxic load. Getting your mind right. Just eating real food. There’s also a system in there that will help you find a little bit of trial and error the diet that works right for you and so it’s more pieces of the puzzle. That’s what it is.
Jonathan: Sean, I’m definitely going to give it the high recommendation here, because I think the most powerful thing we can all do is choose what we focus on. At any point in time, any person could be “My life is…” There’s some outliers. Stuff is terrible, stuff is great. It’s kind of a matter of what we focus on, and if you focus on the mainstream, if you focus on that stuff, you’re going to be confused, stuff is going to be complicated, and you’re going to be unhealthy, but as Sean said, there’s so much good stuff out there. Sean is a wonderful curator of it, and this book is a wonderful distilled curation of this… I like to think of it as almost a matrix. When you unplug yourself from the ‘eat less, exercise more’ mentality, once you can do this, it’s not easy, but I promise you, once you unplug yourself, you’ll look back at that and you’ll just “That is not. How did I ever believe that?” But you got to unplugged yourself. Certainly, Sean’s book will help you yanked on that cord to get yourself unplugged.
Sean: That is absolutely true. That’s why we call it The Dark Side. It’s just like The Matrix. It’s opening your eyes to a whole new world of health and that’s what it’s all about.
Jonathan: I love it, Sean. I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Sean and thank you so much for what you’re doing. Folks, again, when you’re on iTunes checking out this podcast, please pop over, you’ll see it stacked a few rows higher in iTunes. Sean has been at this for quite some time, and he is a wonderful role model for myself and for a lot of other people. Check out his show and check out UndergroundWellness.com. Sean, thank you so much for all that you do, all the people you’ve helped and for joining us today.
Sean: Thank you.
Jonathan: Hey, folks! I hope you enjoy today’s show as much as I did. Again, please show your love for Sean. He showed his love for myself and for the Smarter Science of Slim and for so many other people. I think it’s great for us to pay it back to him and remember this day and every day after words “Eat smarter, exercise smarter and live better.” Talk with you soon.