SANE Splurging, Body Fat Measurements, and Belly-Busting Baking

April: Hello, everybody, it’s April Perry and Jonathan Bailor, back with another episode of the SANE Show. I hope you’re excited today. Are you ready Jonathan?

Jonathan: I’m ready. I’m excited. I’m back from some time away with my wife to celebrate our 10 year anniversary. I’m refreshed and supper SANE.

April: Awesome. Same here. We’re actually going to talk a little bit about how we stayed SANE on our vacations. Because I’d talk about this a little in the past but I love hearing updates, specifics, because I feel like that’s what people need and love. Today we are going to go into our mail bag, which I was always so excited when I was little and I’d be watching one of those little preschool shows where they do a mail bag, and they would read real letters from real people; so fun. That’s what we are doing today. Real letters from real people who want Jonathan Bailor to answer their questions.

We are going to start talking about inSANE treats. I think that’s actually a fun place to start. I love this question. I actually thought it was kind of funny at first but then I thought, Hmm, I wonder if Jonathan will answer this. Okay. If I’m going to splurge on an inSANE treat is it better for my body and blood sugar levels, to have a big splurge, like five cookies from the batch or to have a little splurge, like one cookie but for every day for five days?

Jonathan: I like to put my answers into two different buckets. Bucket 1 is there have been peer reviewed studies on this, and I’m going to share that data and then Bucket 2 is there haven’t been but based on my experience this is an educated hypothesis. So the answer to this question is definitely going to be an educated hypothesis because there has never been rigorous science done on—concentrated, sort of splurging verses spaced out splurging. Challenges to both, I don’t know if one is better than the other but what I can tell you is the downsides of each and then maybe we can decide together which one is better.

April: Okay. Let’s talk about downsides of each.

Jonathan: Okay, so the downsides of each is a large spike in blood sugar is potentially very harmful. In fact, when you are getting tested for diabetes or pre-diabetes your doctor will do a sort of supra maximal blood sugar test, which essentially amounts to giving you a bunch of grape juice, which most people just each casually and then they observe what happens to your blood sugar. What I want to drive everyone’s attention to is when they do this they actually watch and make you stay in the doctor’s office because there may be unintended consequences. Like you may faint, you may pass out because your blood sugar may get too high.

Knowing that taking in 100 grams of sugar can actually require medical supervision in certain context; that’s probably not the best thing to do. At the same time…

April: But I’m thinking most people have eaten tons of donuts and cookies and stuff and they’re like, I’m okay. Alright, keep going.

Jonathan: I’m just telling you what doctors do when they’re testing your blood sugar. The second thing would be the little splurges. Little splurges are definitely very troublesome from a never—my gut says the little splurges consistently would be worse because what’s happening is you’re never giving your body any chance to heal. Let me give you a weird example, imagine you have a cut on your hand and you totally leave it alone and let the scab form for six days. Then on the seventh day you totally rip it off, which I know sounds gross and I’m sorry but over the six days some of your skin will actually heal. Now if you just everyday pick at the scab it might get infected and bad stuff is going to happen because you never leave it alone. So, my gut tells me that going bunkers once and then giving your body time to heal is going to be better than just continuing to poke at it, over, and over, and over.

April: My mom always said when I was eating Halloween candy, she said, I talked to the dentist and he said that it’s better for you to just eat a lot of candy once and brush your teeth then eating candy every single day where you’re more likely to get cavities. But here’s a questions I often hear or a situation I’ve often heard. Some people eat really healthfully Monday through Friday because they’re in a great routine, going to work, or taking kids to school, or whatever it is. Then on the weekends they just loss it. I have one friend who would honestly loss five pounds during the week and then gain five pounds over the weekend. So what do you say about things like weekend splurges. A lot of different diets would say things like have one cheat day every week where you can eat anything you want, as much as you want. What would you say about that?

Jonathan: That is why diets don’t work. For me, personally, any lifestyle decision that you feel you need to cheat on is not a good lifestyle decision. Right? So, if you pick a spouse that you’re like, Wow, I really wish I could cheat on my spouse once a week, it’s probably not the right spouse for you. If you have a diet that makes you feel crazy until you break with what it’s telling you to do that’s not going to be a good long-term strategy for you and if that sounds like, Jonathan’s crazy talk. Vegetarians aren’t like, Oh, on Sunday I am just going to butcher a big and eat the whole thing. They have no desire. It’s a lifestyle choice. They don’t want to cheat. So if you are on a restrictive calorie counting diet you’ll absolutely want to cheat because that’s an unhealthy way to live, but if you’re eating SANE sweets and those types of things, there is no cheating, there is no splurging because the treats are actually good for you.

April: I’m so glad that you said that and I think that’s why I kind of laughed when I read the question because I thought, I don’t feel that anymore. I don’t feel the need to just go eat five cookies. But I can make some coconut flower cookies that I really like and I get it when someone is just starting to go SANE and maybe it’s a transition. I totally get it. I appreciate you saying that.

Ready for questions Number 2? SANE body. I know there isn’t a set SANE body because we did podcast about that before. I wanted to know what should a SANE arm look like? Right? What are SANE abs? She said, What’s this range—I mean, I love the questions. I doubt a man who eats SANEly would every have a 40 inch waist; right? So what would you say? Is there a spectrum we should be shooting for? Because also she was asking about body fat percentages and so we talked about low 20 maybe for a women things like that. But if I’m not measuring body fat, I’m just measuring my waist. Honestly, that’s the main question that I get from everybody is, how do I know if I am doing SANE right. If it’s not about pounds and if my body is different than somebody else’s body then how do I ever know if I’ve got it.

Jonathan: Waist circumference is a decent thing to measure but body fat percentage is really the preferred way to measure. Because there are scientifically demonstrated healthy levels of body fat that we can definitely achieve through SANE eating and they vary by gender and they vary by age. We can go through that very specifically if you would like.

April: That would be great.

Jonathan: For females an average—to be average, which to be clear this is average / healthy, not average in the United States. Because to be average in the United States is actually to be significantly overweight. Since two-thirds of our population is overweight; right. So the average is overweight. This is healthy average. So healthy average for a female, which would actually make you quite fit relative to most Americans would be between 25 and 31 percent body fat.

April: Okay. That’s helpful.

Jonathan: What would be considered fit—so these are individuals who if you saw them in a bikini, let’s say, you’d probably turn your head and say, Wow! Wow! These aren’t the people that if you saw on stage in a body building competition, that’s a different thing. These are just like, I’m wearing a two piece bathing suit and you’re like, Okay. Wow. That’s going to be around 21 to 24 percent body fat for a female. Anything below that you’re looking at fitness professionals. It’s a full-time job to drop below 20 percent body fat for a women. You’re going to want to adjust those numbers about a percent or two up per decade of age starting in your 20s.

All the numbers I just said—if you’re taking notes while you’re reading or watching this…

April: And you’re old. Like I’m getting old

Jonathan: Yeah. For example, having 23 percent body fat when you’re 40 years old for a women would probably make you slimmer than 99 percent of your 40 year old peers. But having 23 percent body fat when you’re 18 you wouldn’t be fitter than 99 percent of your 18 year old peers.

April: This actually is really helpful. I know we talked a little bit about this in the past, but for me, just thinking that it helps me know where I am and feel so much better about it as I’m getting older. I think that that is something that—I was talking to a friend the other day and I said, Okay. I’m almost 40 and I have 4 kids, why do I expect myself to look like my 18 year old niece. Why would I do that to myself? So, this is helpful for women. Do you have men’s numbers?

Jonathan: I do! I do, I do have men’s numbers. So for a man to be average, from a healthy perspective, not from a standard American perspective, he would have between 18 and 24 percent body fat. Men are going to be lower they don’t have breast and they don’t have other things, so on and so forth. To be fit—so the gentleman you see at the beach and you say, Alright, respect. His going to be at about 14 to 17 percent body fat and the same thing applies—for example, a 20 year old that has abs and so on and so forth, male is probably going to be a 9 or 10 percent body fat and that’s going to put him in the top 1 percent of his age category. But if you’re a 50 year old man and you have 19 percent body fat you’re still going to look lean and you’re probably going to look fitter than 99 percent of your 50 year old friends.

April: Awesome. I think that’s given us really good framework to work from. Question Number 3; ready?

Jonathan: Let’s try three for three.

April: Since nursing moms—which I know you love talking about nursing because you have so much experience with this, Jonathan. Here is a very valid question. My fear of losing my milk supply is holding my back from letting go of all grains. I feel like my mild supply is affected after a couple of really low carb days in a row. Any ideas?

Jonathan: I love how this question is phrased because it—unfortunately, this individual is painting themselves into a corner. I think we can take them out of the corner really easily. They’re saying that if I let go of all grains I’m having a problem so therefore I have to get my carbohydrate intake up I have to eat more grains. You can get your carbohydrate intake up without ever eating a grain. Right? Sweet potatoes are not a grain and they are one of the SANEr starch sources and if you are an athlete or if you’re a child or if you’re nursing mother these sort of SANE root vegetable starches are great options, if you need that increased caloric intake.

I would say eat one or two sweet potatoes per day as needed. You don’t need grains and just as another way to think about it. Human beings didn’t eat grains prior to agriculture, which seems like it happened a long time ago, but it happened twelve thousand years ago and people lived for a long time before twelve thousand years ago. Mothers successfully nursed babies before then. So, it’s okay for us to do that as well now.

April: Okay. Great answers. Now we’re going to talk about probiotics. Alright. I don’t know much about probiotics so I am actually excited to talk about this. Since I’ve been wondering about these probiotics and other fermented foods, should I be making an extra effort to be eating more good bacteria or will I naturally get enough living a SANE lifestyle. Are there optimal sources. Now I’m just thinking plain yogurt. What are your thoughts?

Jonathan: It is very important and it is hard to get an optimal amount without making a conscious effort. There’s quite a few things, for example, even though Omega 3 fats or short chain fats that you find in coconut, these are things, which it’s hard to just eat enough of unless you really put conscious effort into it. Probiotics fall into this category as well. Here is an example, prebiotic fiber, which is really great for gut heath, the only real source to find decent concentrations of those in nature are Jerusalem Artichokes. Unless you go a Jerusalem Artichokes stand next to your house it’s going to be kind of hard.

For example, we eat—when we make our SANE meal bars we actually—the primary source of bulk that makes them—there’s whey protein and then we but prebiotic fiber in them because we know it’s hard to get from your local grocery store. So yes, fermented foods are a great option. A good probiotic supplements are a good option. Things like coconut where you’re getting prebiotics, prebiotic SANE supper foods that provide prebiotics are a great option. If you’re going to do yogurts that can work but please make sure that they don’t have a bunch of added sugar in them. Because diary can quickly like—Activia, supper healthy and then you turn it over and there’s like 20 grams of sugar. What! So be careful with that.

April: The benefit of the probiotics would be way less than the harm that the sugar would do for you.

Jonathan: Exactly right. Just like you wouldn’t want to take a probiotic pill and just break it open into a can of Coke a Cola and be like, Boom! Good source of probiotics.

April: Okay. Awesome. Now we’re talking about hormone nausea. I never heard about this lately but this is someone who said that they played around with SANE starting in September, starting upping my game about three months ago. Okay, please try to listen with medical ears, Jonathan. During mid cycle, the last three months only, I’ve gotten more nauseated and right before my cycle I’m getting really nauseated. This is new, it didn’t happen before. Is it normal? Is it related to SANE? What’s going on with my hormones? I’m 35, I am non menopausal. If you’re just feeling this nausea does that have anything to do with SANE, especially for a woman?

Jonathan: I don’t know based on—the data we have, April. I don’t won’t to ever do a disservice for someone. Right? Our bodies are very sensitive, they’re very customized and if the data we have is, I’m playing around with SANE and I’m upping my game to be honest, I have no idea what that means.

April: Does it mean more vegetables? I don’t know, right?

Jonathan: Right. So I have no idea, but however, in all the research I have done and all the people I have worked with—while I have seen, for example, as you increase vegetable and protein and fiber intake, if you do that too quickly that can cause potential gas. I’ve never seen it cause nausea related to a menstrual cycle.

April: Okay. It’s good to be able to ask the questions and when you don’t have a specific answer, we don’t have enough information than I think that that is great. Okay. Intermittent fasting. People have been reading a lot of these benefits about intermittent fasting. They want to hear Jonathan’s opinion.

Jonathan: There are benefits to intermittent fasting. So there’s benefits to intermittent fasting, there’s benefits to almost anything. There’s benefits to running marathons. There’s benefits to ultimate fighting, it’s a great cardiovascular workout. The questions is always do the benefits merit the cost? So intermittent fasting—fasting has been used for years, I mean centuries; right? It’s part of religious traditions and there are positive aspects to it.

Unless you are—I would consider a super advanced individual, I would not even think about this. Your lack of intermittent fasting is not causing your struggles, and in fact, if you’re like 99 percent of the population, intermittent fasting is a euphemism for starvation dieting. It’s a way to politely say, Just eat less food and it actually makes going SANE harder. Because if our primary goal was SANE eating was to eat 10 servings of vegetables per day and you only have four hours to eat because you’re intermittent fasting 20 hours a day.

April: How do you squeeze in those vegetables?

Jonathan: If you’re trying to build lean muscle tissue. Again, some things are good for one thing and not good for another thing. Intermittent fasting is unambiguously bad for building lean muscle tissue and athletic performance. No Olympic athlete is not eating for 16 hours; right? You have to look at what your goals are as well.

April: Alright. Now we usually don’t talk about specific brands or things like this on the podcast but I think this is really an important one. What is in Shakeology drinks? Why is this not a great long-term solution? I am amazed at how many ladies I know who are doing this. They’re having success but at what cost? Pocketbook? Overall health? I love not having to purchase anything extra although SANE products are great and knowing I can always maintain the standard living as long as there is a grocery store nearby. I looked into Shakeology a little bit where you can buy these shakes, they’re supposed to be really good for you. You’re going to pay a certain amount of money every month and they send them to you.

Jonathan: The reason you heard about Shakeology is because Shakeology is owned by Beachbody, which is also the company that puts out inSANEity, Tony Horton stuff, they are one of the only multibillion dollar fitness companies in the world. That’s not a criticism, in fact, kudos to them for the ability to do that. The reason you heard of Shakeology is not necessarily because it’s the best shake in the world. Just like I don’t know if Brittney Spears is the most talented vocalist in the world but she has a huge marketing department behind her. Shakeology is in some ways the Brittney Spears of nutrition shakes.

Shakeology is 100 times better for you than Slimfast or even—I love Costco, but if you go to Costco and you look at their weight loss drink, I think the first ingredient is sugar. So Shakeology is way better than a lot of these, sort of common get them at your grocery store weight loss drinks. It’s not a great long-term solution because it’s not food. It’s processed stuff. If you want to drink shakes I would strongly recommend blending in bulk, as we talked about a lot. And Shakeology is extremely expensive. So it’s not going to have all the satiating vitamins and minerals in their natural form that you need. Is it better for you than Slimfast; absolutely. Is it the best thing for you; no.

April: Awesome! Next questions. How to work inSANE baked goods in the SANEist lifestyle possible. Asking questions about coconut flour. What’s psyllium husk? Talking about almond flour verse coconut flour, which one is better? How about gelatin? What about tapioca flour? I’m just going to through a whole bunch of ingredients at you. Let’s talk. Tell me your favorite ingredient.

Jonathan: From a SANE metabolic healing gut health perspective, coconut flour is the best flour in the world. Now the reason—so that’s great. Coconut flour is also one of the hardest flours to cook with because when you think of, how close is it to wheat flour. Like all bleached almond flour is much more similar to wheat flour than is coconut flour. Coconut flour totally different consistency. The absorbency. You use much less but it is the best for you without questions.

Psyllium husk is just a—it’s basically pure fiber and it’s a way to add bulk. Usually people blend it with other things. Psyllium husk is SANE. It’s just pure fiber. It sort of tasteless fiber.

April: I know. I have some and I was like should I even try it. Does it matter? If I didn’t or didn’t do it. Do you feel like it’s a big benefit? Like, yes, I would recommend you do this every morning.

Jonathan: The three things that make something SANE—we talk about Satiety, Aggression, Nutrition and Efficiency but the common denominator is water, fiber and protein. So if something is natural, which psyllium husk are, and it’s pure fiber than we know it’s SANE. Yes. You should use it.

April: How about gelatin?

Jonathan: Gelatin is SANE. It’s just protein. So gelatin is a form of protein.

April: Tapioca flour?

Jonathan: I don’t actually know the macros on tapioca flour off the top of my head, but if you were to look at the nutrition label and if it’s mostly fiber or mostly protein than it’s probably a fine choice.

April: There are some others—arrowroot flour, there’s a few other flours that maybe different. Like Paleo websites will use. I just haven’t heard you talk about it so I usually just stick to coconut flour and almond flour.

Jonathan: Remember that Paleo—in some way it’s not at all always SANE and that’s okay. It’s not a criticism, but you can become extremely overweight and diabetic eating Paleo. It’s very easy to do. Because sugar—honey is natural and it’s Paleo and you can take—wrap your sweet potatoes in bacon and butter and that’s not—it’s better for you than eating a candy bar but just because it’s natural—tobacco is natural it doesn’t mean that it’s good to put into your body. So just look at the ratio of starch to fiber and starch to protein when looking at arrowroot and those kind of things to pick the SANEist option.

April: I think I actually know the answer to this last one because we’re covered it a little bit more in the past but in case we haven’t been clear enough, maybe we’ll just finish off with this one. Everyone is confused about two-fist fulls of greens. They don’t understand. Is it two cups? People are very concerned about measuring their spinach. From what I understand is as much spinach or kale or these greens that you eat, the more the better. It’s not about measuring cup by cup but typically two-fist fulls for a women would be a serving for her. Two fist fulls for a child would be a serving for a child. I’m I right?

Jonathan: You are. Here’s why the “problem” here—it’s not like a problem, I’m not trying to be critical but let’s say we said, It’s exactly two cups. That still doesn’t answer your question because if it’s baby spinach and the leaves are small, more of those leaves will fit into a cup than if it’s bigger spinach. And kale. How do you take a giant kale leaf and fit it into a cup. This idea—that’s again, that’s not our fault because what we have been taught is it’s exactly this many calories and if you go over by seven calories you’ll gain seven pounds in seven days. Give yourself permission to say, Hey, I ate almost two cups, or almost two-fist fulls of vegetables, and that’s more than I did yesterday, and I am going to do more than that tomorrow. So I’m being successful and I’m being SANE.

April: I love it. I think that’s been a great mail bag. Totally appreciate you answering all these questions. Any final next action that come to mind.

Jonathan: The only next action I would say is to celebrate your successes rather than focusing on your perceived failures. Because one, they are not failures but this is a great example of that. The fact that you’re concerned with the servings of spinach means you’re eating more spinach, so that’s good. Don’t let what you don’t know yet hold you back from rocking what you do know. Keep that in mind.

April: Inspiring words from Jonathan Bailor. Thank you so much and thank you for those of you who are with us. We love having you hear at the SANE Show. Have a wonderful day and remember to stay SANE.