Dr. Ray Hinish Cut the Fat

Jonathan: Hey everyone, Jonathan Bailor back. Very excited about today’s show because we’re joined by one of my Internet friends, an individual who I have done many, many recordings with. Joined him on his wildly popular podcast, the Cut the Fat podcast, and you can learn more about him on cutthefatpodcast.com. He’s an awesome guy and his name is Ray Hinish. Welcome to the show Ray.

Ray: Good day sir, good day. We ought to get you back on it’s been a while since we had you on the show.

Jonathan: I would love to come back on and I’m excited. On your show you give so many other people platforms to tell their stories but I’m excited to hear your story. Like little baby Ray up to adult Ray and what got you there because you’re doing a lot of cool stuff. You do stuff on the Internet, you do stuff in person, you’re a busy guy. Tell us about your life.

Ray: Well, when I was growing up my parents not really knowing any better, which I think is the case for a lot of people even today, would basically give me food to basically help me feel good, right? They’d hear on TV that Fruity Pebbles are a fantastic, full, balanced meal. Me being a kid and not knowing any better I would just simply eat a bunch of Fruity Pebbles, okay? So it wasn’t long before I was kind of gaining weight and getting chubby.

Now I was never morbidly obese but I was a chubby kid. Now when I was about 12 or 13 years old, I fell in love with a girl named Kelly Harrington, who moved into our neighborhood. We kind of started up in a neighborhood called Sweet Cherry Lane, sounds like such a wonderful place doesn’t it Jonathan?

Jonathan: Sweet Cherry Lane.

Ray: At Sweet Cherry Lane was beautiful Kelly Harrington who was a half Puerto-Rican girl with beautiful dimples, long black hair and me being a 12, 13-year old child, just fell instantly in love with her. Well anyway long story short I was kind of a chubby, nugget-headed kid with Pepsi bottle thick glasses and one day at a neighborhood Christmas party somehow I had gotten a hold of Kelly’s shoe. Don’t ask me how. All I knew was as long as I held that shoe I held the attention of the woman of my dreams. So we’re running through the house and I was overweight so I wasn’t the swiftest creature in the world and she quickly got me cornered.

I turned around and I’ll never forget this moment Jonathan. I turned, I looked at her, it was like a real kind of 80s movie moment, and our eyes locked. I looked at her, she looked at me, we peered deeply into each other’s eyes. The words that came out of her mouth, I’ll never forget them. She said, “You’re fat. Give me back my shoe.” So I gave her back her shoe and did what probably any 12-year old kid would do I walked across the street with my head down, walked into my bedroom and started to cry for what seemed to be hours.

I literally think it was hours Jonathan. I remember the tears stopped, I turned my head, looked into the corner and saw in the corner of the room something that I really hadn’t noticed before. It was a weight set. Now it wasn’t a full weight set. It actually was a single-armed dumbbell that had one weight on one side. So I pushed that weight to the middle of the dumbbell, picked it up – it was one of those old Sears and Roebuck’s dumbbell sets and I picked it up and just starting curling it and curling it. I just did the only thing that I knew to do which was to curl that weight.

I curled it probably a 100 times before I fell tired back onto my bed. So the next night when my parents put me to sleep, I would get up and I would turn a light on, go in the corner, pick up the weight and curl it and curl it and curl it until I was too tired to curl it, then I’d fall back on the bed tired and fall asleep. I did this every night. One morning I wake up and I walk into the bathroom where my brother’s brushing his teeth and I curl my little arm in the mirror and there popped a little bubble which was a muscle. I’ll never forget my brother’s eyes. He stopped brushing his teeth, spit his toothpaste out said, “Where’d that come from?”

I’ll never forget that feeling, that feeling that you know what, okay I have a circumstance but I can do something about it. So not knowing anything about fitness or fat loss, only what I heard on television. I heard that okay well people are fat because they eat too much and so that morning instead of eating two bowls of Fruity Pebbles, I ate one and went to school. Eventually what would happen is I heard that people were fat because they didn’t exercise enough. I would come home from school. I’d tie up the tennis shoes and I would just go and walk and run and play every single day.

Come home from school, go lace up those dusty tennis shoes and go for a run. Running by Kelly Harrington’s window every day and I realized how stalker-ish that sounds but trust me it was quite innocent. While listening to this was the 80s, so I was listening to the song that stands out most was, “Get out of my dreams. Get into my car.” You know that song? I just remember running by and just — this was not a time of depression for me. This was a time of excitement.

The reason I tell that story Jonathan, the reason I start with that is number one, because you asked the question. But more importantly than that people who are looking to burn fat and lose weight they approach it from the perspective that this is going to be a horrible, horrible, experience and that I’m just going to have to muscle through and push through that experience to get to the other side. To achieve a certain goal of a certain weight on a scale, right? The whole process of change is a miserable process.

For me as I look back on that time and I can only really do that looking back. While I was in it all I was doing was what the next step. I would just think well what can I do now? Okay well I have tennis shoes, I’ll put them on. I’ll go for a run. I’m eating two bowls of Fruity Pebbles I can probably get away eating one bowl of Fruity Pebbles. It didn’t take rocket science for somebody at that time to just kind of piece together over the years a program. I ended up losing weight and achieving I think a passion for health that I would never have had if I hadn’t had that experience with Kelly.

I guess one of the messages of Cut The Fat podcast and I think the messages of the Simple Science of Slim is that you know what? It doesn’t have to be a complex, miserable experience to burn fat. It actually should be fairly simple and if you’re doing it right it’s simple. If you’re doing it wrong it’s complex and painful. When we look at weight loss, when we look at fat loss, really what we’re talking about is the mastery of life. Mastery in the game of life because when you’re burning fat and when you’re working towards achieving a certain level of health and body then everything in your life has to change for it to stick. Am I right?

Jonathan: Oh absolutely. Absolutely.

Ray: It reminds me of the story by… I remember hearing this story from Dr. Johnny Bowden. It was a story about a Harvard professor who goes to see this guru, okay? So he studies ancient philosophies. He goes to this guru’s ashram and immediately he goes to the guru and the guru says, “Okay, people who are here to learn from me they have to do chores.” He says, “Okay, I understand I want to take part. I want to immerse myself in this experience.” The guru says to him, “Okay, well here’s your task. You’re going to clean the bathrooms.”

The Harvard professor taken aback for a second agrees to it reluctantly, then goes into the bathroom and starts cleaning. He cleans it quite well. Well the guru comes in and he checks the work of the Harvard professor and he looks around, he finds some dust in the corner and he points it out to the professor and says, “Keep cleaning.” So the professor says, “Okay I see the dust.” He continues cleaning. This time he goes through and he cleans out all the corners. He wipes down all of the sinks and the guru returns and checks.

The work is better but he walks into the stall and he reaches behind one of the stalls and wipes it with his finger and finds some dust. So he says, “Continue cleaning.” So the Harvard professor now getting a little steamy continues cleaning. Finally, this time he makes the bathroom spotless, spotless. The guru returns, walks in, checks everything, doesn’t find any dust in the corners or behind the stalls, reaches up, unscrews the light bulb and wipes his finger around the threading of the light bulb and finds some dust there and shows it to the professor.

At this point, the professor gets angry and he says, “I can’t believe you’re doing this. I am a tenured professor of Harvard and you have me in here cleaning bathrooms.” The guru listens to him rant and finally he runs out of stuff to say and the guru calmly looks at him and says, “I understand my child.” He says, “But what you don’t understand is how you do bathrooms is how you do everything.” When it comes to weight loss people don’t get that how you do weight loss is how you do everything. When you get it right, your whole life changes. It’s not just around food, it’s not just around exercise, and it’s around everything.

Jonathan: Ray, that is such the analogy that popped into my head while you were telling that wonderful story is we talk about having a dysfunctional relationship with food. We talk about, you mentioned that this process when done correctly should be a process that is enjoyable and is very transformational. I would draw the analogy to talking about a dysfunctional relationship with another person. In the sense that if you have a dysfunctional relationship with another person there’s not this one thing like oh if we just do this one technique.

Or if we just try this one trick the dysfunctional relationship with another person now becomes good. Like it might turn the corner for a few days but fundamentally the relationship is still dysfunctional. When we talk about taking a dysfunctional relationship with a person and transforming that into a functional relationship, having a functional relationship is a delight. It’s wonderful, it’s not a burden. I think when we talk about having a functional, just non-dysfunctional relationship with food so often that might be seen as a burden.

I promise you that when you have the correct information and when you’re pursuing health and having fat loss result as a by-product rather than just pursuing short term weight loss, being in a functional relationship with food will be a happier, more enjoyable lifestyle than being in a dysfunctional relationship with food. Just like having a functional relationship with a person while it may “require more work.” Obviously to have a good marriage takes more work than to have a bad marriage. It seems like we would all rather have a good marriage that takes a little bit of work than a bad marriage that doesn’t take any work. Am I right Ray?

Ray: Absolutely, absolutely. I guess step number one, I guess the first golden nugget that I’d like people to get is just to summarize that whole rant that I just had is that number one, if it’s miserable you’re doing something wrong. It is the first step that you figure out what you’re doing wrong so that you can begin to make this process a permanent shift. Our brain has a very simple programming. We seek out pleasure and we avoid pain. It all comes down to that, right? That’s why losing weight and eating the right foods is so, so difficult.

I remember having a text between myself and Hunter, the person who operates my business here at Expert Nutrition Center. He texted me and I was away on a trip. He says, “Why is it so hard to avoid junk food?” We were going back and forth. What it came down to for him and I think it comes down to for a lot of people is that we are surrounded by foods that can instantly change how we feel. Now it’s not a permanent change, but that doesn’t matter to the human brain. The human brain only really knows I want to get out of pain and into pleasure. Now a lot of us are walking around unfulfilled, right?

The way we kind of get out of that pain of not feeling fulfilled is by any means necessary, Jonathan. That’s the problem. I mean it’s so easy for us to just walk across the street to the nearest McDonald’s and pick up an Oreo McFlurry and change our state in an instant. That doesn’t fix the problem, does it? The problem being that you hate your job. Or you’re in a miserable relationship. Or your mother is constantly berating you or putting you down.

So it’s very important that people just make that realization and that connection because if you are constantly going through and seeking out sweet foods or desserts and candy and stuff like that you can be darned sure there’s something that you’re hiding with that food.

Jonathan: Ray the one thing that I think is also so empowering and this is where information plays such a critical role is let’s use the craving for sweets for an example. I will be the first to admit I am an emotional eater. I need to eat a lot of food. I like feeling stuffed which is different from feeling full and I love sweets. However, using Stevia or Xylitol to sweeten things has enabled me to in some cases to stuff myself with sweet foods and remain healthy.

This is again our message is not one of this is some miracle quick fix, easy thing to do. However, it is certainly much simpler and much easier than being a diabetic who is depressed all the time and has no energy and is unhappy with the way they look and they feel. Sometimes we have to just consciously choose which path we’re going to take. Neither path is particularly easy and who said life is supposed to be easy? It’s about picking the one that will actually make us happier in the long term, right?

Ray: Right. As a matter of fact one of my patients who came in she was suffering with cancer. I sat down kind of went through her history and this was an older woman I think she was in her 80s. I looked at her sternly in the eye, I said, “You know what? Your path from here forth is going to be tough. It is going to be a battle for you from day in and day out.” She stopped me, she said to me, she said, “You know what? One day my mother walked into my bedroom when I was a child. She sat on my bed and she had two lists in her hands. The first list was Things That Are Hard in Life and it was filled back and front with just a listing of things that are tough in life. She gave me the other list that was titled, Things That Are Easy in Life and it was blank.”

You know what? I mean you’re right Jonathan. Nobody said it was going to be easy. It’s not easy but it is worth it. What we’re trying to achieve here is a mastery of the game of life and how healthy our body is often times basically a representation of how healthy your relationships are, how healthy your career is, how healthy your family is, how healthy your business is if you’re a business owner, how spiritually healthy you are and so forth. It’s all connected. We could take 100 people who’s thin. Let’s say that they’re just naturally thin folk.

We could walk into their car and see what kind of materials hanging around in their car and we can make a determination based on that. If they have lots of Starbucks coffee cups, fast food bags, things like that we can make a determination of how healthy they are based on those bags and that material that’s kind of hanging out in the car. But you know what? You can also make that same determination by looking at peoples’ friends. How are your friends? How do they live?

I once heard it said that if you took your five closest friends and averaged out their salaries that would basically show what your salary was. We could probably say the same and in fact research is now beginning to show just the importance of our social circle. We can look at your close inner circle of friends and probably come fairly close in determining what your weight and health is based on that. It just goes to show you that it’s not all — the complexities of life don’t focus just around food and exercise. It’s everything.

Jonathan: Boy it’s such a great point Ray and I always love to make the distinction between simple and easy because they’re not at all the same things. I remember reading — because we all agree that life in general and basically accomplishing anything, getting a college degree, being a good parent, having a good relationship, anything worth doing is not easy. That is so true, it’s trite. We get that. So anyone who says it’s going to be easy run in the other direction, it’s not going to be. However, that doesn’t mean it has to be complicated.

Literally I had this moment, I can’t remember, I think its David Hawkins, maybe. He wrote this book called Power vs. Force. It’s a bit metaphysical but it’s an incredibly powerful book. I would highly recommend it to everybody and he basically just says the simplest and most obvious statement but it had a transformational effect on my life, that the key to success in any area of life is to pursue positive attractors and to avoid negative attractors. Or basically, we can look back on human history and say there are certain things which generally tend to work out well and are things which generally tend to work out poorly.

For example, lying tends to bite you in the butt. Taking drugs tends to bite you in the butt. Being nice to people, eating things you can find directly in nature that are rich in nutrition tend to make you healthy. So accomplishing anything in life for living a happy life is simply a matter of pursuing things that are positive and avoiding things that are negative. Now that might not be easy given the culture we live in and it might be especially difficult if we surround ourselves with a social group which is constantly pursuing negative things or focusing on negative things. But it’s not complicated. Sometimes I think it’s a hard thing to accept because we may find some solace in the fact that… It’s just so complicated, it’s just so complicated.

At the same time once we realize that it’s not we’re in a position that is so empowering because there are things that are complicated. Managing a hedge fund is complicated. So if you want to go manage a hedge fund, you can’t do that because you’re not in a position to understand the complexities of doing that, at least I’m not. But if you want to be healthy you are in a position to do that because that is not particularly complex. It’s not easy but it’s not complicated. What do you think, Ray?

Ray: I agree wholeheartedly. I think that the complication as it pertains to our fat loss efforts and our fat loss goals and our health goals, the complexity is presented in the desired rate of change, Jonathan. You know it’s like when people read your book for example, and they say okay that’s all great. I love the science, I love the fact that you talk about how the calorie myth and how it’s kind of a false… it’s full of false assumptions. But doing the diet, or doing the program that you’re suggesting is impossible. I couldn’t do it, I couldn’t achieve it.

Well you know why you can’t achieve it? It is because you believe that once you read the book you have to just implement everything all at once. That is a huge faulty misconception. Now I’d like to distinguish between two types of change, okay? The first type is called epiphanic change. We’ve all kind of been introduced to epiphanic change because that’s what gets presented on television. This is the person that wakes up one morning, steps on the scale, they’re at their heaviest that they’ve ever been, they’re 200 pounds overweight.

They step on the scale, they say, “Enough’s enough. I’m changing my life. That’s it, I’m done, this is it.” They leave, they lose 200 pounds over year and then they write a book about it. That’s epiphanic change, right? That is what we see, that is what we imagine after we get done reading The Simple Science of Slim. We imagine ourselves doing all that stuff, doing everything, changing everything just like that but the problem is epiphanic change is nearly impossible to manufacture within our life.

These are people that happened upon a moment where they had developed enough leverage in their life that there was no other choice but for them to change. Most of us wake up and we don’t like the fact that we’re 20 pounds overweight but you know what? It’s not so bad when we’re clothed. We’re only really presented with it when we’re on the beach and we’re having to wear a bathing suit and then we think, “Okay, I don’t like this.” Then they come back from vacation, they go on a diet. Epiphanic change is hard to manufacture. My solution to that is not to try to manufacture epiphanic change. That brings us to the second form of change which I call trickle change.

Now trickle change involves just making small changes kind of looking at your life, looking at all the obstacles in your life and then one by one systematically dismantling those obstacles. So for example, we have this principle in Cut the Fat podcast and that is called the kata approach to change, okay? If you know anything about martial arts, I think you do. Are you a martial artist Jonathan?

Jonathan: I’m not a martial artist but I definitely, the principle I think you’re getting close to is the kaizen principle. I’m definitely familiar and love it. Keep going.

Ray: Okay. Well a kata in martial arts spelled K-A-T-A, is basically where you learn a certain technique. Somebody throws a hook punch at you, you learn a certain type of block, a certain type of reactive punch or kick or lock to kind of incapacitate the attacker. So hook punch comes in, you basically practice this kata. This certain block, this certain punch, this certain lock up. You just practice it over and over and over again until you achieve mastery. We have a principle in Cut the Fat podcast where it’s called the CATAA.

Which stands for Commit — It’s spelled C-A-T-A-A. Commit, Assess, Tweak, and Assess Again. You just constantly run that pattern. You commit to one program. This is where most people go wrong. What they end up doing is they read a diet book, they implement the tactics, they give it two weeks. Doesn’t work and so they go they find the next diet book. Basically you’re jumping ship every time you have any degree of failure. Well the CATAA approach suggests committing to one approach. For example, let’s say we commit to the principles of The Simple Science of Slim.

We then assess our results, okay? So we look at how well it’s working, whether or not we’re losing fat, whether or not we’re feeling as though this is a sustainable process. Now let’s say we implement The Smarter Science of Slim, we get amazing results, we lose five pounds in a week and that’s the best that we’ve done over the last eight months of trying. We say, “Okay great, this is great.” Then we assess. We don’t just stop at the results. Jonathan, there are two main things that we need in order to have long term success, okay?

We need to make sure that a tactic or a strategy fits our body biochemically. Meaning does it actually cause our body to balance out, get healthier and get better and lose weight in this circumstance. If the answer is yes most people just assume that that’s as far as you have to go but it’s not. You also need the second component. It needs to not just fit biochemically, it needs to fit culturally as well, okay? So we have a macro culture within our society and we have a micro culture of our life. Now the micro culture is where it’s at. So let’s say we implement The Smarter Science of Slim and we basically have great success biochemically.

We lose weight but then we start to realize that well our friends asked us to go out every Friday and Saturday and when we do, we just let loose and we lose everything. Then we put the weight back on. Monday comes, we weigh in and we’re as heavy as we were before we started The Simple Science of Slim. So most people would say, “Okay, let’s go and find the next diet book.” That’s what most people do. I just don’t get it but that’s what people do. They re-invent the wheel every single time.

So the CATAA approach says okay commit to this program, this is it, I am going to live The Smarter Science of Slim, I’m going to assess my results, I’m not just going to assess whether or not I’m losing weight, I’m going to assess whether or not it feels sustainable, okay? As Dr. Jade Teta says, the sustainability is basically determined by your HEC score. Which is Hunger, Energy, Cravings. Do I feel hungry? Is my energy better? Do I suffer with cravings? Okay so if you’re doing The Simple Science of Slim, Smarter Science of Slim, sorry Jonathan.

Jonathan: It’s okay, It’s simple, too. So keep going, it’s good.

Ray: The simple, smarter science of slim.

Jonathan: Sexy, simple, smarter science of slim. Just all the “S” words you could get.

Ray: Simple Smarter Science of Slim, say that ten times fast. But like he says you want to assess whether or not it’s fitting the culture of your life. Do you have hunger? Do you have energy? Do you have cravings? If not, the answer’s not to jump ship the answer is to tweak it which is the “T” in CATAA. You want to tweak your program. Okay Fridays and Saturdays come along, what can I do to stay true to the core of the program but still be able to enjoy my time with friends?

So you’ll tweak your program a little. You say okay let’s try going out and doing something fun that doesn’t include getting drunk, for example. Or drinking a bottle of wine and you’ll do that. Let’s go putt-putting one Friday and see how that goes. But anyway it doesn’t matter what it is just tweak it a bit. Then you assess again. You determine okay is this better or worse? That is the only approach to long term success Jonathan. It’s the only approach unless we’re lucky enough to have that moment of an epiphanic transformation which is one in a thousand people. The only approach to long term success is trickle change.

Right now I’m running an experiment in my life, I’m running what I call a CATAA experiment in my life because I’m at a point where I’m not heavy but I’d like to be leaner. So I’m only testing one change within my lifestyle. One change. It’s not eating junk food after 8 p.m. I am an emotional eater as well, Jonathan. Jade and I always talk about, I’ll say, “We’re fat on the inside.” Meaning that we have a natural propensity towards wanting to eat high carb, starchy, sugary foods.

Jade, don’t tell him I told you guys. But Jade’s one weakness is tiramisu. You put a piece of tiramisu in front of him and we’re going to have to chain him up in order to prevent him from eating this.

Jonathan: It’s over.

Ray: It’s over. So my one experiment that I’m running is to just not eat junk food after 8 p.m. Instead I’m eating a salad. I can only eat a salad or a piece of fruit at night before bed, okay? So I want to see how I respond to that and then from there, after I’ve given that enough time, after I’ve made that a habit, then I can go on and test the next thing. I’m in no rush, that’s kind of the point and neither should you be. Meaning you the listener.

Jonathan: Ray, the thing that I think is so empowering again about what you just said is there is a macro distinction there. That is the determiner of whether or not something is working for you is you and is results. It’s not what some Internet discussion board said. It’s not even what some book be it called the Sexy, Smarter, Science of Slim, The Simple Science of Slim. It’s not what some guru online said. If it is helping you to achieve your goals, it’s good. If it’s not, you need to tweak it and that in and of itself Ray to me, simplifies things dramatically.

I’m sure you get this all the time in your practice Ray which is, “Hey, Ray, what do you think about X?” The most recent for me is intermittent fasting. What do you think about intermittent fasting? And I say, “Well, have you ever tried intermittent fasting? How did it work for you?” If they say good I say, “Well then it might be a good approach for you.” If they say, bad, then I say, “Well, it’s probably not a good idea for you.” When we look outside of ourselves it can get really, really complicated because nobody else knows you or cares about you more than you do.

So when you take the approach you’re describing Ray, you become that barometer. You then have the power and you then have the control and you then can be set up for a lifetime of this rather than again just this diet book, that diet book and really just almost being like a leaf blown in the wind.

Ray: Right. You know the biggest problem that people have Jonathan, is that they — I wrote this as one of our Twitter posts which was, “You don’t like people who you can’t trust.” Distrustful people are not very likable. The problem is you don’t trust yourself either.” That’s the biggest problem that people have. They commit to too much and they never, ever achieve it because it’s just too much. Am I able to just, if I were to do a Paleo for example, Paleo is very, very simple. It’s eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, meat and eggs. That’s paleolithic eating and it’s a very healthy approach to living. It’s very simple, but if I were to just to try it I’d be able to achieve it.

Anybody can do something for a period of time but they will always give up because it’s not sustainable within the culture of their life. So when I’m just running this one experiment, 8 p.m. no eating junk and eventually I’m be moving from not eating junk to not eating at all after 8 p.m., would be my ultimate goal. Then not only is it a lot easier to implement in my life and by the way it doesn’t mean Jonathan that I’m not going to change anything else about my life. All it means is that the only commitment I have, the only commitment I have to myself, 100 percent commitment is that I’m not going to eat junk after 8 p.m.

Does that mean I’m going to eat junk for breakfast, lunch and dinner? No. What ends up happening is you have, I don’t want to call it a soft commitment because it’s not really a commitment. You just say, “Okay. This is what I’m committing to.” If I happen to feel like I want to do other stuff, if I feel the urge to go for a walk, I’m not going to deny that urge I’m just going to go for a walk. If I feel the urge to eat a healthier dinner, then I’m going to go eat a healthy dinner. The thing about it… I guess the best way to put it Jonathan is if you want to learn to floss your teeth, I can give you the formula for learning to become a consistent flosser instantly. You want to know what it is?

Jonathan: I do.

Ray: Floss one tooth, same tooth every day. One tooth, same tooth, every day. That’s it. If you come home, let’s say you go in there to floss that one tooth and you decide you know what, the tooth next to it could use some flossing too let me floss that. Then by all means, you’re not going to say no, no, no, no. I’m just flossing the one tooth. You’re going to say okay, let’s floss that other tooth. Let’s say you get in there. You floss that one tooth beautifully. Then you figure you know what while I got the floss on my fingers let me go ahead and floss the rest of my teeth. You go in there and floss the rest of your teeth.

All this means is that if, let’s say you’re doing that and you go in and floss that one tooth and you’re flossing all the teeth and you’ve gone two whole weeks and you’ve flossed your whole mouth every single day for those entire two weeks. Then you come home after an extremely hard day’s work and you don’t feel like flossing your teeth, what do you do? Well most people say, “Well, I’ll floss tomorrow.” But the answer is to floss the one tooth and be okay with that. Then just floss the one tooth and go to bed because it’s the consistency of the habit that’s more important than the one time that you don’t feel like flossing your teeth.

Same thing with exercise. You don’t feel like exercising? Put your shoes on and determine to do four minutes of squats, four minutes of hard work out on your legs. Then just give yourself permission to go home. The consistency is more important than the individual effort.

Jonathan: Ray, I am going to have to end the conversation on that nugget of goodness because literally I — I got a little bit of chills. So that is very, very smart and that illustrates again that principle of smarter versus harder and folks hopefully not only in that segment but in all previous segments, you can see why I am a fan of Dr. Ray Hinish and why you should check out, if you haven’t already because it is one of the most popular if not the most popular fat loss podcast on iTunes. Check out Ray’s show, Cut the Fat podcast because there’s a lot of mo’ of the goodness you just heard to bring little Mr. T. in here. Ray, that was phenomenal. I really appreciate you joining us today.

Ray: It was a total pleasure Jonathan and I’m looking forward to have you back on the show as well.

Jonathan: Oh I love it Ray. Well thank you again and listeners I hope you enjoyed our time with Ray as much as I did. Again, please do check out his wonderful work on iTunes, also his website there’s a bunch of free information there. Cutthefatpodcast.com. Remember, this week and every week after, eat smarter, exercise smarter, and live better. Talk with you soon.