Jonathan: Hey everyone, Jonathan Bailor here, and I have a special treat for us today; because we have a guest who is almost like Wonder Woman here, because this is amazing. We have a woman who has a PhD in hardcore science. She’s a mom and she has experienced triple-digit sustained weight loss and she’s a prolific blogger and she’s a prolific author and she’s just awesome. Her name is Sarah Ballantyne. She’s here. She’s a proprietor of ThePaleoMom.com. She’s got a book coming out in September that you can pre-order on Amazon now called The Paleo Approach, which is just going to rewrite the book on autoimmune disease. Then she’s also got the Paleo View podcast, and she’s here with us! I can’t believe it! Sarah, welcome.
Sarah: Thank you. I’m blushing. That was a really nice introduction.
Jonathan: I know. I had a guest on a while back who was just like, “When I’m having a bad day, I think I’m just going to play the first 30 seconds of this podcast!”
Sarah: It’s totally an ego boost. Thank you.
Jonathan: My pleasure. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being here. I tried to just quickly summarize your story, but I mean we can talk about the science all day. Your story, however, is so unique. You as a person, your unique value proposition as an individual is truly unique. Please just tell us your story.
Sarah: Well, I was an overweight teenager, and as I got into my early 20’s, I hit somewhere the high 200s. I stopped weighing myself at 265 pounds. That was when I hit the ‘afraid to go on the scale.’ In those days, I was introduced to the concept of a low-carb diet. I moved away from home and went to grad school and decided to try a low-carb diet and had fantastic success with it. I lost 100 pounds. I then decided that running marathons would be a good idea. I got what I thought was really healthy, but at the same time, I started having more health issues. So in those days my definition of really healthy was the fact that I could run for four and a half hours and that I could wear size 8 clothes.
I also, at the same time, was developing irritable bowel syndrome. I had a really acute onset of adult asthma. So it was like I was fine, and then all of a sudden, I was coughing up blood. I was having migraines. I was having anxiety attacks. I started having weird rashes on my skin, and I got really, really sick.
Jonathan: But you were running marathons, so clearly you were doing okay.
Sarah: Yes. My definition of health was I could run a marathon. But I got really sick, and I ended up so sick that I was hospitalized, and then I was apartment-bound for three months. I was put on extremely high doses of steroids, and I couldn’t breathe walking from the bedroom to the living room. I would run out of breath. It turns out that my immune system was going crazy. It was probably a variety of factors. It was probably some foods that I thought were healthy that I was eating that really weren’t, the high stress of being in graduate school, and the high stress I was putting on my body with marathon running, which wasn’t a good choice for me really, on hindsight. So I ended up gaining fifty pounds in the first six weeks after I got sick and gaining the other fifty pounds more slowly over the next year.
My ability to exercise was completely robbed from me. It was years and years and years before my lungs were not reactive enough that I could even walk briskly. I was on steroids for years and at that time I also was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease called lichen planus which was one of the funniest skin rashes I had. I gained even more weight. In the end I gained even more weight back than I had lost. I struggled with my health for most of the next seven years. I had actually lost weight to get pregnant. I was only 255 pounds when I got pregnant the first time. I had gestational diabetes and had preeclampsia when I went into labor, which made for a very complicated labor and delivery. And, I was sick and somewhere in there around the time my oldest daughter was a year, I realized I had pre-diabetes. I decided I had better get my act together. I ended up, again, using sort of a low carb diet approach.
Pulling up my socks, I lost 100 pounds again. I had a much healthier second pregnancy, but I always battled with this autoimmune disease. It was that battle with the autoimmune disease that brought me to really critically look at the quality of the food that I was eating. And, really research exactly how the foods that I was eating were interacting with my body and interacting with my immune system. That’s become something that I am really, really passionate about is the understanding the relationship between diet and the immune system and between lifestyle factors and the immune system. Things like sleep and stress management and circadian rhythms. I ended up completely transforming how I ate and ended up completely resolving health issues that I had had. I’ve had irritable bowel syndrome for 12 years. I switched to what is called a Paleo diet and within two weeks I was able to go off of six prescription medications. I lost 20 more pounds; I have sustained now a 120-pound weight loss for a couple of years quite effortlessly. I don’t measure my food. I don’t count my calories. Actually I eat a ton and enjoy it. I’m managing my autoimmune disease without any prescription medications. That experience of reading all the science and learning about the importance of food quality and what are better choices of foods to eat and also applying it to myself and seeing such amazing improvements in my own health is what inspired me to start a blog and a podcast and write a book. That in the nutshell is my story.
Jonathan: That is, that is a story for the ages, Sarah. And a couple things I want to dig into, first you mentioned that taking more of a Paleo approach, you are eating essentially whenever you are hungry until you are no longer hungry, basically, as long as it can be found directly in nature. Is that pretty close?
Sarah: Yes, so my diet focuses on quality meats and seafood, quality vegetables, and quality fruits. I eat as much of those foods as I want to eat, and by eating those foods, I am getting really good protein, really high-quality fats and really high-quality low-glycemic index carbohydrates, lots of good fiber, lots of vitamins and lots of minerals and lots of anti-oxidants. Those are all things that are shown over and over and over again in the scientific literature to be important for all health, not just because I have an auto-immune disease. You look at any chronic disease, many of which are epidemic now, cardio vascular disease; diabetes; even cancer. These are things that are shown to prevent those diseases and also in many cases reverse them once they’ve started. So, it is a diet that is freely nutrient dense. That’s really my focus, because I only eat the most nutrient-dense foods. Because of that I am flooding my system with everything it needs to work optimally. I am basically creating an environment inside my body that is conducive to health as opposed to eating foods that don’t have a lot of nutritional value. Some of the foods I avoid actually stop your body from absorbing nutrients. Not only do they not have a lot of nutritional value but they actually decrease the nutritional value of anything else you eat at the same time.
I avoid foods that cause inflammation or that cause what is sort of called a ‘leaky gut.’ A lot of people don’t like the term “leaky gut” but I really like that there’s more scientists and more people in the medical starting to own that term. It is really descriptive, and it what it’s more technical [indiscernible 00:00]. What it means is there is a variety of substances in certain foods that are known to interact with the gut barriers or the cells that form the tube that is our small intestine where we absorb all of our nutrition. There are substances in some foods that basically cause little holes, very, very tiny holes, but it is enough so that inside your gut that supposed to be inside and not inside your body. They are supposed to be in your gut to leak into your body. These cause all kinds of problems. Immediately across that barrier is 80 percent your immune system. So things that are not supposed to be in your body leak into your body. They activate the immune system and that is turning it out to be one of the fundamental contributors to chronic disease, including auto-immune disease.
So it has become something that I have really, I have put my geek on, and then I get real glued with the detailed science of it. I am really passionate about it. When I finished writing the section on my book about the glutenins, which are a type of protein that are found in grains and in legumes, I was specifically looking at the effects of wheat germ glutenin, which is a protein in wheat, hence the name. When I was reading about the effects this has on the body, I couldn’t believe it was legal.
It was so startling how much we know about the detrimental effects of wheat germ gluten, and how that information is not disseminated publicly. It’s just because we as humans ate meat for longer than the FDA has been around, I guess. Then it must be okay and when you actually look at the science. Its’ really powerful. There are effects that are… there are some effects that people with genetic susceptibilities would have an exaggerated response to, which explains why some people get these chronic diseases and some people don’t. But there are effects that happen in everybody. Also it is really important with genetic modified grains all these problematic proteins including wheat germ and gluten are increased because there the plants defense mechanisms.
When you genetically modify a grain to have more wheat germ gluten in or more gluten in those grains are easier crops to grow. They are more resistant to pests, and they are more resistant insects and fungal infection; so it means a higher crop yield which of course helps drive the prices of those foods down. We get this great food system where everything is cheap but nothing has nutritional value. You know that food system? And so, when we genetically modify these crops, it’s having cheap food is a great goal, but not at the expense of nutrition. What happens when we eat genetically modify these crops; we increase the number of proteins in them that are problematic for human health. It’s probably one of the reasons why all of these chronic diseases have seen such dramatic increases in the last 30 years. We also know our intake of those types of foods have increased, so not only are the problematic proteins increasing, but we as a society eating more of them.
Jonathan: Well, Sarah, let me just really quickly… I’m going to channel. I’m going to put my mainstream media hat on here real quick, and I will give you a response here. So, Sarah, it sounds like it’s all about eating everything in moderation and just cutting calories, is that what you are saying? I’m just kidding . . . .
Sarah: Oh, no . . .
Jonathan: It’s just everything in moderation, right? I mean because it’s just a calorie is a calorie at the end of the day, and we just need to eat less.
Sarah: There’s so much information showing that it is. I mean it’s such an over-simplification, and it’s such a falsehood to say it’s all about calories. Not that calories are unimportant certainly, even if you’re eating really, really high quality foods, you can still over eat. That can still… it’s harder to overeat because you tend to get full, but if you really wanted to you could still eat excess calories and still put on weight. There’s so much more importance in terms of hormone regulation and the food that you eat affect your hormones. Insulin is a hormone and insulin regulation has really important on your immune system but it also affects hunger, stress. And the hormones that regulate like hunger and the hormones that regulate stress, there is a really complex interplay between all of those hormones. There’s really complex interplay between what is called the fat hormone, or leptin. If people have heard of that hormone; what is called the main hunger hormone, or ghrelin which is the hormone your stomach releases when its empty that makes you feel hungry. Those hormones all interact with the immune system, and they are all deregulated by eating diets that are nutritionally poor and energy rich. That means diets are full of empty carbohydrates. I consider whole grains to be empty carbohydrates. There’s lots of people who say, “Oh well, you have to eat your healthy whole grains because they are so nutritious.”
Whole grains displace vegetables. When you put a slice of bread on your plate, you are putting it there as your filler. As your food, you know you might, what else might you put there — maybe some steamed broccoli, or a salad. Vegetables are higher in every single vitamin and mineral than even your healthiest grain product. They’re similar in manganese, but other than that, vegetable contain double, triple, sometimes ten times as much of every vitamin and mineral.
They also contain more fiber, and a lot more fiber per calorie. That’s another thing that greens digest very, very quickly into sugar. Two slices of multi grain bread hit your blood the same as six teaspoons of sugar. You could… your body doesn’t know the difference. They that sugar hits your body so, so quickly. You know vegetables are not like that. They have much less sugar in them, and because of the fiber; it doesn’t hit your blood like that. You regulate your blood sugar so much better with vegetables. I’m really pro-vegetable, if you can’t tell. I’m really anti-empty calorie. I consider anything that is not nutritionally dense and especially anything that is not nutritionally dense that is also increases your blood sugar to be… I don’t consider it to be food.
Jonathan: I love what you say in terms of the technical economic terms that opportunity costs. Is it you’re eating a whole wheat bread, not only are you eating the whole wheat bread spiking your blood sugar causing all sorts of hormonal dysregulation and flooding your body with anti-nutrients; so that’s bad. But in addition to that you are missing out on all the other good stuff you could be taking in with more nutrient dense foods. So it’s a one-two punch.
Sarah: Right. And many, if not all chronic diseases, have been associated with micro nutrient deficiencies. Of course, what that means is deficiencies in specific vitamins and specific minerals. Those happen to be the specific vitamins and specific minerals that are not found in grains. Eating these whole grains, heavy diets you are actually probably eating more energy than you actually need because you feed this insulin spike; than blood sugar crash; then craving for more food cycle which is not helpful if you are trying to eat healthy or lose weight. But you’re also feeding these micro-nutrient deficiencies so you are making yourself deficient in vitamins and minerals that you need to have for a functioning immune system that you need to be able control the inflammation in your arteries so you don’t get cardiovascular disease. Replacing those foods with vegetable, with quality fats, for me that means fats from fish, fats from pastured and grass fed animals, those are animals that eat the diet that they’re meant to eat; fats from foods like avocado and olives. When you replace grains with those foods, you’re getting so much more nutrition.
I could also talk about fats in the human diet, because one of the biggest correlators with disease is a deficiency in fat soluble vitamins. That probably reflects the move from eating fats that come more from animal fats to vegetable oils. A lot of the fat-soluble vitamins that we tend to be deficient in are the ones that are found in quality animal fats and are not found in margarine for example. While fats is a little more complicated than that, it’s one of the things that this move to low fat diets, because really on the surface, eating fat makes you fat just sounds like it should be right.
Sarah: Almost like it makes sense, and really it’s not at all right. There’s lots of great resources for people out there to explain why it has to do with eating excessive sugar not fat. When you avoid fat, not only are you depriving your body of essential nutrients, you need fat, the walls of every cell in your body are made out of fat, your brain is largely made out of fat. Not only do you need fat, but also those fat-soluble vitamins that we are, you know we are taking vitamin D pills because we are not spending enough time outside or not eating enough fat in our diet to be able to make it ourselves. It’s really important to eat good quality fats. That really good quality fats are fats that come from properly pastured animals, fish and those great monounsaturated fats that are found in vegetables that if you squeeze them you get fats; not grains where you have to mechanically separate out the fat and do a huge processor of fat. If you can, if you remember, this totally dates me. Do you remember the Simpsons episode where Homer Simpson decides that he is going to become more morbidly obese?
Jonathan: Oh, absolutely. Please mash the key pad to obtain a special dialing wand. That episode, yes…
Sarah: His philosophy is that if you, if you rub the food on a piece of paper and the paper turns translucent its good food to eat.
Sarah Not, I mean I’m not saying hamburger, but if you, if you can really simply get the fat out of a food just by mashing the food and letting the fat float to the surface, like olive, like coconut, like avocado then that’s good fat. It just reminded of that scene where he rubs the food
Jonathan: Any Simpson’s reference is welcome on this show, so you don’t have to hesitate. Well, Sarah, one thing, you have said so many wonderful things here, that I wanted to drill into, because I think even for me it still sounds like big news every time I hear it and the media certainly has fun with it; but the fat that sounds like big news to me shows how far we’ve gotten away from a simpler and healthier view of nutrition. And, you mentioned that something along the lines of when you don’t eat the things that are required for health aka, essential nutrients, micro-nutrients, you can’t remain healthy.
In some ways, that is the most obvious statement we could every make. There are things that are essential to human health: vitamins, minerals, proteins, essential fats. If we don’t eat those, our body can’t function properly. That is called disease. But like we keep hearing in the media, like, when you don’t eat enough vitamins; or we will hear the flip side of it, which is by eating a healthier diet your diseases go away. We are like, that a miracle! In some ways, it kind of is, but in other ways it’s like the fact that isn’t just isn’t abundantly obvious that eating that which is required for health enables health. Eating that which is not required for health, and in fact blocks our absorption of the things that are required for health causes disease, the fact that that is newsworthy, I think says something about our culture.
Sarah: Well, and that we have to scientific studies to prove it.
Sarah: Part of it is you know for most of human history the only foods we have had access to have been high-quality foods. It wasn’t something we had to think about. No one was overweight; no one had these chronic diseases; you just ate what you could grow in your garden, you know not just hundred gatherer populations, but hundred gatherer farmer populations; what you could fish, what you could hunt or you know the animals had domesticated. Even in those times, even though there were some foods that I consider suboptimal foods, were included in the human diet. So I am thinking a few hundred years ago. Things like high-fructose corn syrup, things like refined white flour, they weren’t available. Everything was what you grew yourself. Clearly there were more of these diseases than there were pre-agriculture, but the reason why we’ve seen such a huge increase in chronic disease, everything really, like every disease, over the last 30 years has been because these foods have become more and more refined and more and more pervasive in the food system.
So, they are just everywhere. It is so hard to buy food in a grocery store and not buy those kinds of foods. I had a friend ask me, “Now what should I look for on a label? What are ingredients I should look for on a label that means the food is healthy?” I said, “Well if the food has a label, chances are it is not healthy.” I buy very, very few foods that have labels. Mostly, most fruits, vegetables and meat and fish typically don’t have labels. They typically have… come just piled somewhere and you throw it in your little plastic bag or you better yet and go to a farmers market and buy it fresh from the farmer who is really passionate about his dirt, so you’re getting way better tasting produce that also happens to be more vitamin and mineral rich.
Not everybody has access to that, but if you do that’s clearly an even better option. I think that, I think that a lot of it is that the information about food quality has become a grass roots movement. That means that as the movement grows, more and more people are getting educated about what good nutritious foods that are conducive to health are. That information not necessarily easy to find, unless you are looking for it.
Sarah: It’s getting better, but it’s not like the nutrition experts are going into the schools and teaching about how to eat or actually giving them accurate information.
Jonathan: Well, and Sarah, the thing that I’m hopeful about, though, because sometimes what I hear people say is, whether or not they are calling it Paleo or hunter gatherer or the caveman type thing, people tend to, the mainstream may tend to bucket this as just another fad, like a fad type of diet. That is so, I mean time will tell, but that is so inaccurate simply because, like what you’re saying here, for example, eating foods that contain more essential nutrients per calorie is better than eating foods that contain less essential nutrients per calorie is a fact.
Any person who disagrees with that, either they’re not thinking in terms of nutrition, maybe they’re well. From a moral perspective we shouldn’t eat animals, and that is a separate conversation. That’s fine if you want to have a moral conversation, then let’s have a moral conversation. This is just math, literally you’re just doing math. You’re just saying, “Here are the foods that contain the most of which is required by human biology,” and then again, that’s provable; like even the USDA and their giant document that influences the dietary guidelines recognizes that no, that the consumption of no carbohydrates is required for human health but there are things that are required.
That again is not even debatable, so why, and certainly we can say “Well can people eat these other foods and be okay?” Well, sure. There’s people that smoke and don’t get lung cancer. That doesn’t mean we recommend people smoke in moderation. I mean there are also people that drink and don’t have alcohol problems, but that doesn’t mean we give alcohol to our infants in their baby bottles, right? We’re sensitive to these things. That’s why we have an uphill battle to face, but the truth and even the common sense is on our side, so I am encouraged. What do you think?
Sarah: Well, what I mean, I am obviously very passionate about the concept behind the Paleo diet, but I tackle it because I have a science background. I did medical research for four years before deciding to become a stay at home mom. I did research in inflammation and [indiscernible 00:00] and systems, so this is kind of my thing.
I really, I just lost my train of thought.
Jonathan: Well you know what it is, Sarah, is that you’re thinking about these amazing… of what it is, these barbequed stuffed bananas that I see you have a recipe for on your website. You just had a flash of that in your mind, because they have been flashing through my mind this entire podcast. I’m like, dude, I could totally use a barbequed stuffed banana right now. That sounds amazing.
Sarah: I have to make those bananas every time we barbeque. They are so good, and they are really good even as leftovers; so you can make an entire bunch. That really didn’t help me regain my train of thought.
Jonathan: It’s no worries, because it did allow me to segue, which is really briefly into the last thing I want to cover with you today, Sarah, because we could talk forever. I am definitely going to have you back on the show because we could talk forever. But, the only, let’s call it reasonable objection I ever heard for what you are describing here and what I describe in my work, which is essentially just eat the foods that contain the most of what we need and the least of what we don’t need, or that it’s counterproductive to health, which is again, almost like saying “more happiness is better than less happiness” like it the most obvious statement you could ever make. But people still find issue with it. The only real issue I’ve ever found to be reasonable is, “Okay, that’s neat.” “It’s great for you to say eat these nutritious foods, but I am so busy.” “I’ve got kids.” “I’ve got a family.” “I don’t have time.” “I’m to do this or it’s not tasty.” Sarah, what do you say to these people?
Sarah: Well, I mean it is really challenging to compete with foods that are engineered. Junk food is engineered. There are people whose job it is at these companies to engineer food for it to be addictive. It’s hard to compete with those foods. It’s hard to compete if when you’re used to those highly, highly palatable completely empty, in terms of nutrition, foods. Yeah, a great organic apple grown down the road is still not going to taste as good. The really cool part is that your taste buds are constantly regenerating, and they adapt very quickly. Avoiding those junk foods, it doesn’t take very long before your body completely adapts, and suddenly those foods are the most delicious, fulfilling, amazing foods. When you, and it really only takes a couple of weeks. You have an entirely new set of taste buds about every six months. But they adapt much faster than that. It takes a couple of weeks of, you know, maybe you will feel deprived because you are not eating your potato chips. Taste buds adapt so quickly and when they do it is just, you end up with so much more pleasure actually because your body knows that it is getting nutrition.
It actually increases the pleasure the response to those foods. The other ….
Jonathan: Let me just throw into that, because I think it’s actually more pleasurable. I’m not sure if a truer statement has ever been said, and let me describe it at least in my person experience and the individuals I’ve talked too. Okay, let’s talk about the insane or the typical scenario of you eat one potato chip, and that’s a good potato chip; but after one potato chip you’re actually less satisfied than before you ate that potato chip, because now you just want a second chip. So you end up eating two potato chips, then three, four and five, and you end up eating the entire bag of potato chips and you’re still not really satisfied and you feel bad. You feel like you cheated yourself. You’re not… you don’t feel good in any sense of the word.
However, you shift from the dark side over onto a more sane and natural nutrient dense approach, and you eat one of these nutrient-dense treats. You take bite of it, and that’s really good; but you don’t feel this overwhelming craving. You have a second bite because actually you know that it is actually good for you. Not only is it not bad for you, it’s good for you. Then you end up eating the whole thing, and you’re satisfied and you’re full and you feel again, just, just complete. You don’t feel bad, because you’ve nourished yourself. It’s almost like… and this is a bit… I’m going to go out there a little bit. I don’t know if this analogy will work, but it’s a bit like if you met the right person, and you were able to share an intimate with that person — one that is based on mutual respect and love, that is truly so much more satisfying than just something picked up off the shelf. I mean, it’s a deeper, more meaningful, more real, less guilty pleasure. I think that once you experience that, for me at least there is no going back. What do you think?
Sarah: Well, I often refer to Oreo cookies as an abusive ex-boyfriend. So I think that analogy works real. Yes, I think there is such a powerful connection between real nutrition and your hormones and your neural transmitters, and when you can really nourish yourself, you completely change. The entire… your entire endocrine system regulates hormones so much better and that impacts far more deeply than just insulin regulation. It impacts to handle stress. It impacts your ability to sleep. You really get good quality sleep. It impacts your ability to take joy out of life. When you have nutrition, it makes you feel happier. Most people who you know adopt sort of a — not even necessarily a Paleo diet — but a real food diet or whole foods diet, report having more energy or report just feeling happier. It’s fantastic for anybody with anxiety issues or depression. You know those things are really, really important.
But I did want to go back to that, because one of the things that I mentioned was people who look at this way of eating and just say that they just don’t have time for it. That is a really important obstacle, because one of the things that I am saying is that you need to get back into the kitchen and cook food. It’s not that there are no convenience foods that you can eat that don’t meet these criteria, because certainly there are. You can buy vegetables in a bag that are already cut and washed and ready to eat and ready to steam. You can buy rotisserie chicken that doesn’t have any food chemicals sprinkled on it depending on where you buy it. You can buy convenience foods, you can buy foods that are very, very healthful and don’t require much in terms of preparation. As a general rule, you are going to be making most of your foods. You’re going to be cooking for your freezer, and having your own meals to reheat in your freezer for nights when you get home too late and just don’t have time to cook. You’re going to be making your own snack bars and trail mixes and things like that to bring with you for if you need a snack and you’re not close to quality food.
Yes, I am saying that is going to be a time commitment, but that doesn’t necessarily need to be a problem. Spending more time in the kitchen can be a great opportunity including your kids in cooking. You can make it a family bonding experience. That’s when I catch up with my podcast listening.
Jonathan: Well, and you also might not need to train three hours a day for a marathon or spend an hour driving to and from the gym every day, because this way of eating will do more for your health than an amount of time in the gym probably ever could.
Sarah: Well, certainly, I mean not to under emphasize the importance of activity, but diet really does have a bigger impact on your health than, especially if your comparing an hour of activity to three, or a 20 minute walk around the neighborhood to a 30 mile run. There are priorities, and I think spending time in the kitchen has to become one. It doesn’t have to become laborious, arduous; I can’t stand chopping all these vegetables thing. It is something as people get more adept in the kitchen; you know I think a lot of people have forgotten how to cook. You know that comfort with cooking just comes with time and experience. You make a recipe enough times eventually you have to stop looking at how much of what goes in, and you just know, eventually you start measuring by handfuls. Eventually you know what spices go with what meats and what vegetable, and the only way to really gain that instinct in the kitchen is to be in the kitchen. It gets easier, and it’s an obstacle for people and for those people for whom it’s an obstacle there are choices that are Paleo meal delivery companies are coming up in various cities. You can always eat your food raw.
Jonathan: What an answer! This is an area I know individuals can go to your website and check out your books and find all kind of techniques by which they can reduce the amount of time and the optimizations. Like you said once you learn how to do these things, it’s really not a chore and it’s really not that time consuming. That website again is thepaleomom.com. Sarah also has another book coming out in September. It’s not out yet, but you can pre-order it on Amazon.com called The Paleo Approach. It’s got a lot of practical and how-to information as well as a lot of great science; and of course, you can always listen to the Paleo View podcast right next to Smarter Science of Slim podcast. Check out the Paleo View podcast. Sarah, we’ve got to have you back, because this has just been awesome, and I am sure I would love to get into some of the more practical how we can implement these things in the kitchen, and how we can do these as busy individual if you would be willing to come back on the show.
Sarah: I would love to. As you can tell, I can talk.
Jonathan: I love it. You can tell you’re full of energy. For anyone who heard your story, which would be everyone who is listening to this podcast, would be amazed. Please do hear the vibrancy in Sarah’s voice. Look at Sarah’s pictures on her website, because if we replay back to that story you can imagine thinking this in an individual who would lose hope, and you can hear it in Sarah’s voice that she is just a radiant individual. She is not an individual who has had a life without a challenge. I mean, she’s got two young kids. She had all these autoimmune conditions, and she just threw these simple… it may not be easy, but it is simple, changes to her life. She has really transformed herself, and you can hear that in her voice. Sarah, I just really appreciate you sharing all this insight with us and being such a wonderful example and being that change. We wish to see in this world, as Gandhi put it. Thank you so much for joining us.
Sarah: Thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun.
Jonathan: Awesome. Well, hey, everyone thank you so much for listening. Please do check out Sarah’s website over at the Paleomom.com and check out her upcoming book, The Paleo Approach. Pre-order that. Support her. She is a great example. And remember this week to eat more and exercise less but do that smarter. Talk to you soon.