How To Drop Two Dress Sizes In 30 Days Without Going Insane #SANE

Jonathan: Hey. What’s going on, everybody? Jonathan Bailor and April Perry and we are back with another SANE Show, specifically Part 2 of an epic two-part series where the courageous and delightful April Perry is sharing some pretty awesome and empowering stuff with us about her personal experience of going SANE. If you haven’t listened to the previous episode, please check it out because we’re going to pick up where we stopped with that one. April Perry is in the house. What’s up, April?

April: Okay, today we’re pretending like April Perry just met Jonathan Bailor and I’m telling you a little bit about where I am physically and we’re going to talk about how I can make some very safe SANE tweaks to what I’m already doing to just optimize my results. I’d love to explain what my goals are. Does that sound like a good start?

Jonathan: It sounds fantastic. I’m excited to rock and roll with it.

April: Okay, because I know there are a lot of women who say, “Yes, health is my number one. I’m not going to starve myself. I’m not going to be crazy with exercise, like devote my whole life to living at the gym.” A lot of the women I work with are entrepreneurs; they’re mothers; they care about their community, maybe their churches. They’re doing a lot of things in their lives and trying to balance it, they don’t have the time or energy to devote two hours a day at the gym, and they want their food to just be automatic.

Now, the last episode, one of the things I’m really grateful, we talked about, is that where I am right now is I’ve been eating SANE foods for a couple of years; I don’t really think about it; I just kind of have the same things to eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner; I’ll have some snacks in there; if late at night, I want to eat something, I do. I don’t really think about it and I’m able to fit in my clothes, do what I want, feel really happy — things are good in my life.

For the last couple of years, there has been a lot of just added stresses. Most of them are really good stresses as things have been growing in my life, in my business; I’ve been making improvements in my family. Things are so good right now in my life. I actually have a little bit more bandwidth now to be able to invest a little more time and energy in my health and wellness. So I want to do that but I don’t want to do it in a way that’s going to harm me or a way that’s going to deliver sub-optimal results. So I’m coming to you for help.

I don’t know what my body fat percentage is right now — I just don’t. I’m totally fine with just coming as your client very public. I weigh about 152 pounds right now. I am thirty-eight. I’ve had four children. My parents both kind of struggled with their weight; my mom — always. She had eight children and she was always counting calories and never achieving her goals that way and had a lot going on there.

I do sleep pretty well. I’m kind of a stressed person — not trying to be — but I’m very conscientious so I have to work through not being stressed — not in a bad stress way but just like, I’m very excited about a lot of things so I’m really active; I’m always thinking of things. I shouldn’t say I’m a stressed person; I’m just a very active, very involved person. I don’t just usually sit around being relaxed. I don’t ever lay by a pool; I’m always listening to podcasts or doing something because that’s the kind of person I am.

My goal weight — I don’t know if I have a specific goal weight. After I had Spencer, my fourth — he’s nine now — I pretty much starved until I was 135 pounds. I couldn’t get below 135 no matter how much I starved myself, how little I ate, and how many days I went to the gym — 135 was the lowest I could get. In high school, I was probably about 140, being really active as a cheerleader and everything.

I’m 5’5” and I do go to the gym once a week to do eccentric exercises. I rollerblade a couple of times a week. I take my puppy. That’s kind of where I’m at right now. I go walking with my husband a few nights a week. So that’s the starting point.

Jonathan: When you were eighteen — I’m assuming that’s a fair assessment of when you were at your fittest. Would you say that that’s a fair assumption?

April: Actually, no, because when I was in high school, I feel like — I was super active in high school but I feel like I was eating a lot. I would take a really big lunch and I didn’t even think about food and I would eat a lot of breads and things like that. Specifically when I was eighteen and I went away to college, I did gain that freshman twenty. I had no idea what I should have been eating. I would say when I was eighteen, I probably — I don’t even know if I weighed myself but —

Jonathan: The weight actually is irrelevant. What was your size when you were your fittest?

April: My fittest was probably when I was maybe seventeen but then I was actually really fit right when I got married because I started learning about nutrition and eating very healthfully. I would say my fittest was when I was about twenty and I was like, between a size six and a size eight.

Jonathan: Okay, so your fittest is between a six and an eight size.

April: Yes.

Jonathan: Okay. And is your goal to look like a fit thirty-eight-year-old who has had four children or is your goal to look like a fit twenty-one-year-old who has had no children?

April: I’m actually good looking like a thirty-eight-year-old. The thing is, I actually still wear between a size six and an eight. I just feel like around my midsection, my arms, my legs, I feel like I just could get more toned and just feel more comfortable.

Jonathan: Is your goal to look like a thirty-eight-year-old who has not had four children or a thirty-eight-year-old who has had four children?

April: See, I just don’t know. I don’t know. I just want to look better than I do but I don’t know what to compare that to.

Jonathan: What you would generally compare it to is other thirty-eight-year-olds historically who have had children. I can promise you that you are doing quite well. So your goal is actually to look what the female glamor magazines would say that a thirty-eight-year-old who has had children should look like. We can do that. That’s fine.

I’m thirty — how old am I? I’m thirty-three and I look better than I looked when I was eighteen because it’s my job and we’re probably going to record some exercise videos at some point and I want to be like, I want to look really fit. No judgment there. It’s really important to get specific on those goals.

April: Yes.

Jonathan: So what you would do, especially having had four children, having a stressful life, is, you’re just going to need to start to look at food and exercise like you would look at how you develop and strengthen your family and how you would develop and strengthen your business. Or it is something that you diligently plan and think about daily, weekly, hourly. What that means is you will not accidentally look supranaturally fit ever.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: So it’s going to become like any skill in life. If you want to have a successful business; if you want to be a successful athlete; if you want to be a successful artist, you will not stumble upon artistic talent. You will have to apply dedicated time and energy for years and then you will be a beautiful painter. If you want to have a wonderful family, you will spend dedicated time and energy on your family and then you will get great results.

All we’ll do is, we’ll take the standard SANE template — non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, whole food fats — and we’re going to ask how much are you willing to give up or sacrifice taste and flexibility?

If you look at two ends of the spectrum, one is, let’s call it nutritional serenity, which is, “I’m not willing to compromise on taste; I’m not willing to compromise on flexibility; I’m fine looking healthy and I just want to not think about eating” — non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, whole food fats, and low-fructose fruits; in that order. Treat yourself rarely but you know your body is a temple so you’re not going to put garbage in it.

On the other end of the spectrum is, “I’m a fitness competitor who is like all over Instagram and I like taking pictures of myself in skimpy clothes and posting them on Instagram because I define myself by how my body looks.” That’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that.

April: That’s not me. That’s not me, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Those people are just going to say flexibility and taste does not matter to them. What matters to them is how they look on Instagram so they’re going to eat the same basic stuff that does not taste particularly good every single day.

April: Okay. So here is, I think, what can help clarify your prescription for me. I’m actually getting pretty excited about this. Let’s say that the effort — scale of one to ten — the ten effort is me trying to look like I’ve never had children and I want people to be like, “Whoa, you look so good.” That’s the ten effort. A one effort is just what I’m doing right now; just whatever, I’m happy, I’m busy with other stuff, here’s my food.

What if you could give me a prescription for like a five? But here’s the thing. I want you to tell me what you would suggest I do. But then I want to come back on the next podcast and give a report on whether that worked for me or whether I reassessed my goals because the thing is, unless I really know what’s required specifically, I just don’t know if I’m willing to do it.

Maybe it’s something that’s really not that hard for me because I’m one of those people that once you point me in a path, I’m really good at getting things done but that path obviously needs to work with my life. I’m not going to put my family out; I’m not going to sacrifice more than what this increased health or perceived health would do for me. I just don’t know if that’s what I want or not.

So can you kind of explain what a level five would be and then I’ll report back next time?

Jonathan: One hundred percent. Here’s a level five. You can write this down. If you’re listening to this, you can write this down as well. This is for a female. Level five.

April: Okay, I’m actually getting out my pen.

Jonathan: It’s not going to sound sexy; it’s going to sound effective.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: Because that’s what we’re talking about here.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: So you’re going to eat four times a day. You’re going to hear a different tone in my voice than you normally hear because if you want these results, you have to do this.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: It’s not whatevs. We’re talking about different type of results than we normally talk about. You’re going to eat four times per day, period. There is no other eating. So you’re going to eat four times per day because I don’t think you’re going to exercise that much, so four times per day. At each one of those meals, you’re going to eat at least three, up to five, servings of non-starchy vegetables with at least eighty percent of those being green leafy vegetables or green vegetables, like broccoli and asparagus, are fine.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: During those meals, you’re going to have one serving, as defined by the SANE framework, which is going to be about the size of the palm of your hand, of clean nutrient-dense protein. If that’s conventional meat, it has to be lean. If it’s grass-fed meat, it’s fine because it’s automatically lean. You’re not going to cook with any added oils ever, period.

April: Okay. How do you make sure it doesn’t stick to the pan?

Jonathan: Use water or use spray coconut oil — very little of it.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: The best options are things like canned tuna, lean cuts of grass-fed beef.

April: Okay. What about those salmon patties? Do those count or it has to be fresh salmon?

Jonathan: Yes, I would recommend fresh salmon in those cases. The salmon patties have canola oil added to them so that’s not going to be as healthful for you.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: And if you’re eating salmon, that’s going to bleed into the next category, which is one serving of whole food fats, possibly two. You shouldn’t be famished so one to two servings of whole food fats. Sorry, you can’t exceed five servings of whole food fats per day, period, so however you want to divide those up. You’re going to go between three and five servings of whole food fats across the day. I would like for at least one of them to be —

So you’re going to have basically three meals where you’ve got one serving of whole food fats and one meal where you have two. That’s where things like eggs and salmon come into play. Salmon is a fatty fish — super healthy fats but it’s a fatty fish so you’re probably going to get a serving of nutrient-dense protein and a serving of whole food fats in your serving of salmon because it’s a fatty fish.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: Same thing with eggs. If you’re going to do eggs, two whole eggs is one serving of whole food fat. So you would do something like four egg whites and two whole eggs. That’s going to give you a serving of nutrient-dense protein and a serving of whole food fats. The definition of these servings are all available free of charge at SANESolution.com in our blueprint.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: That’s the basic template. You’ve got three to four servings of non-starchy vegetables, eighty percent of which are green leafy vegetables; a serving of lean nutrient-dense protein or, if it’s going to be not so lean, that bleeds into your servings of whole food fats, which is between three and five per day, period. That’s eating.

Exercise is, eccentric exercise once a week but you’ve got to be increasing the resistance every week. You’re cracking what you’re doing and you’re consciously saying, “If I did eccentric leg press with 200 pounds last week, I’m not going to just do 200 pounds again because I’m stronger this week than I was last week so I’m going to go up to 205.” I’m going to continue diligently tracking and increasing that.

Then I’m going to do high-quality interval training once a week and I’m also going to find some way to be active; not jogging, but I mean like, walking, physical activity, yoga, Pilates — all that stuff counts — at least three times per week for thirty to sixty minutes of being active or restorative activity. Then I’m going to sleep a minimum of six hours per night, period; ideally, more like seven or eight.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: And I’m going to just drink an abundance of water and I’m never going to drink calories unless it’s a green smoothie that I made — so no milk, no nothing. I’m not drinking calories. I’m drinking water, green tea, black coffee, other forms of herbal tea.

April: If you go out to a restaurant while you’re doing this, do you bring your own food? Do you eat at restaurants if you’re doing this?

Jonathan: Absolutely. Salads or a great option — so I would get a salad, put the dressing on the side —

April: Okay. Does Romaine count as deep green or is that just spinach?

Jonathan: No, Romaine is considered a deep green leafy vegetable.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: I eat out all the time when I’m on the road and I would just generally order just what we talked about. I’m going to get either chicken or fish or grass-fed beef if they have beef and then my two sides would be vegetables and I will say — well, for me, I have different goals than you so I might actually have some butter on them; but for you, you wouldn’t be adding any butter to them.

April: Now, would you ever have Greek yogurt or cottage cheese?

Jonathan: Yes, those could be your servings of nutrient-dense protein if you want. I would be using — but again, remember, we are going above and beyond here. For example, there’s a difference between fat-free Greek yogurt, fat-free cottage cheese, and the different gradations if you had full-fat cottage cheese — that’s going to be some of your whole food fat servings versus your nutrient-dense protein.

April: Okay. The four times a day when you eat — does it matter what hours of the day?

Jonathan: No.

April: Do I have to eat at the same time every day or I can just eat four times a day?

Jonathan: You don’t have to eat four times per day. If you eat three times per day, if you’re full eating less than I just described, the only things that are required are, one, that you’re not hungry because you’re not at level ten yet. You’re at level five so you don’t want to feel like garbage here.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: You have to eat double-digit servings of non-starchy vegetables, period. You have to eat at least three servings of nutrient-dense protein, period. You have to eat a minimum of two servings of whole food fats per day. If you’re only at two of them, we’ve got to make sure that those are coming from therapeutic sources, or make it three rich sources — chia seeds, flax seeds, salmon or fatty fish, or mono unsaturated fats — so olives, avocados, Macadamia nuts — or medium chain triglyceride, which is primarily found in coconut. If you’re eating any fat, we need to make sure that it’s the best fat; otherwise, your health will suffer.

April: Okay. I’m actually really excited about this. I love that I don’t have to be hungry and it’s just optimizing it. One other question as far as whether I’m deciding if I’m eating four times a day or I’m eating three times a day, do you ask yourself the question, “Am I hungry?” How do you assess when you’re hungry? How do you make sure that you are eating at appropriate times and how do you assess when you’re full? Do you just make sure you’re eating slowly so you can tell? What do you do?

Jonathan: The best way to assess if you are hungry is to, if you feel hungry, drink a bunch of liquid. Drink like sixteen ounces of liquid, wait ten minutes, and see if you’re still hungry.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: To judge if you’re full or not, eat your non-starchy vegetables first to completion.

April: The three to five servings.

Jonathan: Eat all of your non-starchy vegetables first, then eat your nutrient-dense protein, then drink sixteen ounces of liquid, then wait five minutes, wait another five minutes, and if you’re still hungry, eat more.

April: Okay. Let’s say, I did my three meals like you just outlined with the whole food fats and the proteins and I’ve got that in there. Then at the end of the night, let’s say, it’s like eight o’clock at night and I’m thinking I’m kind of snackerish right now and I could use something to snack on.

Last night when I felt that way, I ate a whole cucumber and then I had some carrots and then I had a cup of plain Greek yogurt with some xylitol in it and a little bit of natural peanut butter. That’s what I ate last night when I was feeling hungry. If I were feeling hungry at this point and I just snacked on vegetables in the evening, I could just stop with the vegetables; I don’t have to make it a complete meal with protein as well?

Jonathan: Correct. You’d also be sensitive to the types of vegetables you’re eating. Carrots are a starchier vegetable. They are much higher in sugar than, say, spinach, for example. You might crunch more on celery. Green vegetables in general are going to be the way to go. Peanut butter is not SANE; it’s in the middle. It’s a legume.

April: Okay, so I just cut that out. Don’t do that.

Jonathan: Yes.

April: If I’m a five.

Jonathan: And if you’re just feeling snacky, if you’re a five, you might just say, “Okay, I’m feeling snacky but I want to look supernatural so I’m not going to totally deprive myself but I’m just going to eat pretty hardcore SANE vegetables right now.” Because if I’m just feeling snacky — think about it like, I’m Michael Phelps and Michael Phelps feels like not training. “Get in the pool, Michael.” Because that’s your goal, you know what I’m saying?

April: Okay. One more question. If I were doing — you know we had that banana bread when you came to our house with Angela, that Alia made for you? That had a lot of coconut flour in it but it did have bananas. Would you tell me to stay away from any of that for your whole food fats? Don’t have anything that has fruits in it.

Jonathan: Correct.

April: I’m eating no fruits.

Jonathan: Because that would be not in the servings framework we just talked about.

April: Okay, because incorporating fruits is not a five.

Jonathan: Well, we would have to modify the other — if you want, it’s easier to do it without fruits. You’re going to get better results just using vegetables. Fruits are vegetables with more sugar, basically.

April: Okay. All right. I feel really happy because what I’m excited about is, I have a framework that I can try. I’m not committing to do this for a whole month or whatever but I’m going to take this and I’m going to put it into my life and then, next episode, I’m going to let you know how it goes. I’m going to actually be journaling along the way how I feel. Does it work out with my values? Is it working out with my schedule, my life, and my goals?

On one hand, this could be exactly what I’ve been needing to do to take SANEity to the next level. On the other hand, I might say, “You know what? Now Jonathan’s just explained what it will take for me to achieve that level and I’ve decided that I care about other things more and so I’m not going to do that right now.” In either case, it’s up to me to decide that.

Jonathan: I want to be really clear with everybody that, when I say I’m not making any value judgments, I mean that because, you know what? We talked about April one versus ten. For me, I’m at a nine.

April: Yes. You live that life, yes.

Jonathan: If someone’s going to feel bad because they tried to be polite and served me a piece of chocolate cake, I will very respectfully treat that chocolate cake like someone who is halal will treat foods that’s not — I mean, I’m not going to be a jerk about it but there are no exceptions. I don’t ever — when I travel, it’s just, this is how I am and so it’s really not a value judgment. But what we have to shy away from is expecting supernatural results with no effort. That’s the calling card of charlatans, “You can magically look supernaturally fit without any effort.”

What we’re saying with SANE is, you can look super healthy and you can feel super healthy at a level one effort because eating can’t be complicated, by definition, when you do it correctly. If you want to be a level ten, that’s cool too. We can help you do that and you won’t get diabetes and a bunch of other nonsense along the way. If you like at most sort of bodybuilding and other types of prescriptions, there’s a lot of inSANE techniques that go into that.

We’re just trying to say whatever your goals are, do it without compromising your health.

April: I love it. Okay, you’re a hero. Thank you.

Jonathan: My pleasure. April, I’m really looking — the only thing I’ve got to ask you is, I do need you to actually track the compliance to this every day because that’s really the big difference, how intentional and compliant we are, whether it’s SANE or inSANE. If we don’t do it, we’re not going to get the results. Doing it is the key.

April: Okay, I will commit. I’m going to track it. Now, if I decide it’s not worth it, I’ll let you know but I’m going to track it. I’m super excited. I just can’t thank you enough, Jonathan. You’ve saved my life in so many ways and I just really appreciate everything you do for me and for everybody.

Jonathan: My pleasure, April. I appreciate the opportunity very much and I look forward to our next episode and I look forward to hearing your results. Now I’m on the hot seat but I have all the confidence in the world because eating non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense proteins, and whole food fats in the way we described can’t not work. It’s just science. It’s exciting. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. A special thanks and round of applause for April Perry for putting herself out there. Remember, stay SANE.